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badly measuring products, what do you do with them after ASR?

Crosstalk

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I always wonder whats the general feeling of owners of their gear thats measured as bad here. When you send something for review you actively know that it may take a hit, and then the resale value is going to get a hit. ASR's popularity- does it impact sales , or resale of gear that were previously hyped?

Do you feel like you need to get rid of it immediately after seeing such a review?
 

Larry B. Larabee

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Do you feel like you need to get rid of it immediately
Usually the owners just put the unit in 'their other room' and use it for casual listening. As far as a forum's popularity, the higher end of the audio segment represents 1/10th of 1% of all sales and that figure is from 20 yrs ago so, much less than that these days. They won't have any trouble selling if they choose, at a typical 75% loss for any resale items in the sector. Besides their item may perform well and they get bragging rights, well worth it for those lacking in ego.
 

egellings

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If I liked the sound of a piece of equipment with a bad review, I'd still continue to enjoy it, while listening around at other stuff to see if I can hear a difference or not. If I heard a difference, and the difference was actually an improvement, then I'd consider updating what I have.
 

_thelaughingman

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Offload it on some poor bugger looking for his next Hi-Fi fix on Craigslist.
 

RickSanchez

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I don’t think we have enough data to know if a bad review on ASR would impact direct sales or secondary sales. ASR may be popular, but in the audiophile crowd there are still a large number of people who either A) don’t know about ASR, or B) don’t believe in the measurements on ASR (i.e., the “trust your ears” crowd.)

For myself: if I’m happy with the product I keep it. Eventually if I need to upgrade (usually for additional features) I’ll use ASR to buy the next thing, but I’m not in a rush to replace a mediocre piece of kit that own. I had a Grace (x Drop) DAC for a while that worked fine. Didn’t jump off the charts measurement-wise. I eventually replaced it for a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 because I needed the extra functionality.
 

NiagaraPete

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eBay
 

Robin L

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If ASR can do anything to help the "audiophile" community, it would be to promote scientifically based data on the limits of what we can or cannot hear. SINAD of 80? Is that actually going to be audible under the circumstances a person habitually listens to music? Is it in fact a red herring? My speakers are about three feet from my ears, With the levels set properly I can't hear noise with my ear up against the tweeter. Does it really matter how my old Yamaha AVR measures if noise is not a problem, and I don't want to crank the volume?
 

Blumlein 88

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First create an account on those "other forums" with a totally different user name. Post a few subjectivist posts praising all the things everyone knows is good to create credibility. i.e. costs a lot. Later advertise your unit for sale and sell it.

The above is TIC btw.

Just sell it honestly if you are selling. I'd even link to a review on ASR if one is available.

I posted my own negative review of an Emotiva pre/pro. It wasn't all terrible, but it was sub-standard. It also had some very useful functions that nothing else has without costing about 3 times as much.

So someone was looking for one, and I posted I still had mine I'd sell for a pretty nice price. This was in my review thread. It fit his needs and he purchased it. He's happy, I lost a little money actually, mostly because I didn't sell it a couple years earlier. Nobody was working under false assumptions. You don't need SOTA for every purpose under the sun.
 

Prana Ferox

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I have a Denon X3500h. It didn't measure particularly well at all. There are certainly things I don't like about it but I don't notice any SINAD inadequacies, not with my signal chain and listening volume.

I have other cases where I've used ASR reviews to compare and buy products where I was otherwise ambivalent about the choices.

There is a lot to the user / listener experience that is not SINAD or necessarily even measurable. Some people may just like certain products (or aspects of them) more than others, and that's OK. I would not let a bad Amir review spoil your enjoyment of (or via) a device you otherwise like - or force you to an option you don't.
 

usersky

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Have the worst offender in AVR category, NAD T758v3i. Bought it after seeing measurements here. Had a 60 days return window. It's still in my room after 2 years, totally love it, perfectly satisfied with sound, functionality, look. No plan to replace it.
 

solderdude

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I would say.

If you were always happy with your gear before finding out it did not have stellar measured performance you either get rid of it or just continue to use it as before as you were happy with it.
 

LuvTheMusic

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Depends on how several factors: how "bad" the review is, what other considerations exist for the device, etc. Two related examples, both reviewed and discussed fairly recently on ASR: the NAD C 658 streaming/DAC/preamp and the BlueSound Node (same parent company, both use the same BluOS software).

After the NAD review, we did not see multiple posts telling about people selling their units. Why? Because even though the measured performance was mediocre relative to the best available, for most music in most systems for most people, any differences were likely not audible. On the other hand, the 658 has a huge array of useful features and mature control software. Had the performance been abysmal, the story might be different, but sometime "good enough" is indeed good enough.

In the case of the Node, it appears that most of the people who commented were using it as a streamer and bypassing the DAC, i.e.,using an external DAC. Thus, the measured performance that included the DAC was irrelevant; Amir's measurement when the internal DAC was bypassed were fine, i.e., limited mainly by the stream source. Again, the features offered outweighed the less-than-state of the art measurements. And even those using the internal DAC again thought that the performance was "good enough".

BTW, saying "good enough" sounds like faint praise, but why worry about issues that are, in most cases, inaudible? That would not be very scientific! ;)
 

tomtoo

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Objectivism is not the opposite of subjectivism.
If you not happy with a S/N of 90dB, or a THD of 0,1% change your gear. If you was always happy with it, no nead to change.

Its not about a number fetish like some subjectivists like to spread about it.
Its just the absense of BS.
 

phoenixdogfan

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My OG LS 50's which don't measure or sound as well as my LS 50 Metas, are now surround speakers. They are powered by my Behringer A500 which was replaced as L-R power by a Purifi Eigentact. So the less than perfect measuring stuff now are used for surrounds.
 

TheBatsEar

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I always wonder whats the general feeling of owners of their gear thats measured as bad here. When you send something for review you actively know that it may take a hit, and then the resale value is going to get a hit. ASR's popularity- does it impact sales , or resale of gear that were previously hyped?

Do you feel like you need to get rid of it immediately after seeing such a review?
Bought a cheap DAC/headphone amp for my Notebook. Works fine.
Bad review review from @amirm.
DAC/headphone amp still works fine. :cool:
 

Andysu

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i cat litter any audio garbage trash or any uhd disc atmos without hesitating. got refund on that rubbish butt kicker. i keep the Aura shakers.

 

Spocko

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I always wonder whats the general feeling of owners of their gear thats measured as bad here. When you send something for review you actively know that it may take a hit, and then the resale value is going to get a hit. ASR's popularity- does it impact sales , or resale of gear that were previously hyped?

Do you feel like you need to get rid of it immediately after seeing such a review?
I'm certain that owners of Pass Labs equipment can easily flip it in the secondary market at a premium, and this is after Nelson Pass himself has publicly stated that he utilizes distortion beneficially in his amplifier designs - it's genius. He recognizes his amps won't measure well objectively, and just pre-emptively struck at the core of ASR's value proposition. Since Pass Labs have a very large loyal following who swear by the amp's "warmth" and musicality, I'd say he's succeeded. Not having heard any of these amps personally, I can't vouch to their musicality or even audible shortcomings, but in the end, if the consumer is happy with their purchase, it's not my job to spend their money.
 

egellings

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If it tickles my nun-handles, I'll keep it, otherwise, it's outa here, regardless of measured results. I have noticed, though, that poorly measuring equipment often does not tickle my earflaps.
 

jeffbook

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I went down the Audioquest Dragonfly/Jitterbug hole prior to seeing the reviews here on ASR. I went the eBay route and got rid of both units. I replaced these with an Audioengine D3 from Drop for use with Amir's amazing Sony $10 headphones using MathAudio Headphone EQ for travel use. Still not the best, but the combination works well for its intended use.
 
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