BACCH4Mac Pro Edition - For those considering BACCH

[onion]

I have not yet.

 

[Dialectic]

I have not yet.

Still no word on your end?

I guess better to iron out any wrinkles now rather than post-release.

 

[onion]

No not yet. And yes - I agree it's better for them to release it right.

I'm still setting up my music room. Because of the position of a piano, the listening position is skewed to the left. It's amazing how BACCH centres the stereo image and sound field despite this asymmetry.

 

[Justin Maynard]

Is this better than a Smyth Realiser A16? Maybe someone who has heard both could comment...

 

[onion]

I haven't heard the Smyth Realiser but I think they're different products. The Smyth Realiser allows multichannel movie formats (auro atmos, etc) to be heard through headphones. BACCH processes stereo (not multichannel AFAIK) to render a 3-d sound field through loudspeakers or headphones.

 

[Justin Maynard]

The Smyth products simulate speaker sound through headphones. BACCH4Mac HP can do the same in software.

In terms of customer service, I understand that Smyth is not very responsive or reliable, in sharp contrast to Theoretica.

Unless the BACCH solution offers an improvement in sound quality, spending 2K USD more on a software product with no resale potential whatsoever doesn't seem to be worth it to me.

 

[Justin Maynard]

By the way, are binaural recordings necessary for BACCH over headphones? They say on the website that it works with regular stereo recordings over speakers, but only mention binaural audio for headphones.

 

[onion]

I've had a chance to use 9.5 for the last week or so. This is with Genelec 8341, 1 Genelec 7350 sub and 1 Genelec 7360 sub, eq'd using GLM before measuring for the BACCH filter.

Subjectively, the XTC effect improved even for similar measurements compared to the previous version.

Last night, I added 3 more broadband absorption panels. The room is as below

The XTC actually measures a bit worse on the right side

Subjectively, the difference is stunning. With vocals, the sounds forming words (eg 'esses' for 's') are much clearer as is the vocalist's breathing. Instruments are better defined. Counter-intuitively, the speakers and the room have disappeared with the additional absorption panels. Large room acoustics and reverb are much easier to hear on live recorded classical music. It's so pleasing to the ear that I'm going to go through much of my collection again this weekend.

The stereo imaging slider is good fun.

To conclude, the update delivered a modest improvement in XTC performance. Additional room treatment after the update delivered a huge improvement even though this isn't fully reflected in the measurements.

Using GLM, there is a null at around 110Hz which I think is due to SBIR. I'm getting some low frequency absorbers to put behind the speakers, and will see if this also improves the performance of BACCH4Mac further.

 

[Dialectic]

By the way, are binaural recordings necessary for BACCH over headphones? They say on the website that it works with regular stereo recordings over speakers, but only mention binaural audio for headphones.

BACCH works with all stereo recordings. Recordings made in natural acoustic spaces work better than studio recordings. Among recordings made in natural acoustic spaces, recordings made using dummy-head microphones tend to work the best.

Nonetheless, I find that virtually all stereo recordings are enhanced by BACCH. For many studio recordings and some recordings in natural acoustic spaces, the enhancement is slight. Recordings of classical music made in real performance spaces all benefit substantially from BACCH in my experience.

 

[Theoretica Appl. Physics]

Is this better than a Smyth Realiser A16? Maybe someone who has heard both could comment...

Please see reply at this new thread Revisiting speakers vs headphones in light of BACCH and Smyth Realiser

Regards,
Buddy
[email protected]

 

[onion]

The BACCH-hs^3 (head-steered sound spotlight) sub-module relies an HOA microphone to create a "high-order microphone beam" that can be steered anywhere in 3D space (using the BACCH-HT-Nav module) by simply looking in that direction, to significantly isolate sound sources in the beam from the background. The BACCH-sme (stereo mic emulation) allows the accuarte emulation of a variable-pattern pair of stereo mics for recording (or low-latency live monitoring) using a single HOA mic. More info can be found on the BACCH-dSP webpage

Thanks Buddy

Do you have any demoes of this technology? I'd quite like to see how this works in practice before shelling out on a HOA microphone. I suspect it may be of interest to others on this forum too - there's a thread on 'sound beaming' here

 

[onion]

That's a great result!. I've improved things to lt 7.5-8dB/ rt 4.5-5dB. I have Genelec 8341 with two subs. I did demo the Kii three and found the bass too hard to control, and was advised that the D&D 8C would be similar to the Kii three for that small room. I'll have to get a thick rug

 

[onion]

I've measured crosstalk with and without the sheepskin rug and have not seen much difference. I consistently get 11-14 dB of XTC.

I may experiment with moving room treatments around to see if I can get a higher number.

However, I think that, to get the highest XTC possible with BACCH (which, if I recall correctly, is around 20-23 dB), one has to use beamy electrostatic speakers (Sanders or Quad 57s) or horns.

I tried with some broadband absorbers on the floor to deal with the floor reflection. They make a mild difference. I think the small room factor (and short distance to side walls) put a hard limit on how much XTC I can get. The best result is with listening position equidistant to side walls (which is not quite equidistant to speakers for my room).

 

[Dialectic]

Do any of our BACCH users on the forum know what specification of M1 Mac is needed for optimal performance with BACCH4Mac?

If I replace my current i7 Mac Mini, I will probably look to go with a desktop machine, having had some problems with the two Mac laptops I've used in the past.

Thanks in advance, and happy holidays

 

[Restless Audiophile]

Did any one compare the BACCH 4 MAC against the standalone SP "adio" or "dio"?

 

[onion]

Do any of our BACCH users on the forum know what specification of M1 Mac is needed for optimal performance with BACCH4Mac?

If I replace my current i7 Mac Mini, I will probably look to go with a desktop machine, having had some problems with the two Mac laptops I've used in the past.

Thanks in advance, and happy holidays

I'm using the lowest spec M1 Mac mini with 8Gb Ram. It works a bit better than the previous generation Mini that I sold. I would say that the machine is left on 24/7 and there is often a memory error message if BACCH4Mac is left on all that time, as well as audio glitches. All of this is fixed by a reboot.

Edgar Choueiri indicated that 8Gb is OK but 16Gb may be better, particularly for Macs that are being used for other purposes as well.

 

[Dialectic]

Have any BACCH4Mac Pro users seen their "activated level" switch over to showing trial status? This happened immediately after I made some new filters and saved settings. Wondering if there's an easy fix.

This is not a problem in my regular use and has no effect on the software's functionality as far as I can tell. (Version 9.7.1 has otherwise been rock solid in my experience.) A friend may be visiting to hear the system, and I don't want him to think I'm using a cracked version of BACCH4Mac...

 

[stevenswall]

Glad it's working with the Genelec 8341, but worried because my 8260 has wider dispersion and focused directivity helps apparently. I wear Some of the initial press seemed to be quoting 30dB of crosstalk cancellation.

Unless the price comes down though, it looks more cost effective to get the $6,000 a pair Polk Legend instead of the $50,000 hardware box.

Has anyone compared the crosstalk cancellation of the Bach SP and a Polk Legend?

 

[Ilkless]

Glad it's working with the Genelec 8341, but worried because my 8260 has wider dispersion and focused directivity helps apparently. I wear Some of the initial press seemed to be quoting 30dB of crosstalk cancellation.

Unless the price comes down though, it looks more cost effective to get the $6,000 a pair Polk Legend instead of the $50,000 hardware box.

Has anyone compared the crosstalk cancellation of the Bach SP and a Polk Legend?

The hardware box appears to be a halo product with a massive tax for fancy case and one-box integration.

https://www.theoretica.us/bacch4mac/

BACCH4Mac is their "entry" offering and uses an RME Babyface Pro for the I/O. Individualised XTC starts at a touch under 5k.

 

[onion]

The pro edition is $6980 while the audiophile+ edition is $5980
link

Having read the Genelec + W371 thread, I wonder what the XTC performance will be for that setup with the W371 in cardioid mode - it may approach the D&D8C