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BACCH4Mac Pro Edition - For those considering BACCH

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#1
Thinking of getting BACCH? My strongest advice is to JUST DO IT AND DO IT NOW!!

This is for those considering using BACCH dsp (BACCH) in their system but are unsure if it will work for them. I primarily wanted to give you an overview of my experience using BAACH4Mac without re-stating too much information already written. Many of my friends who have heard my system have either bought their own or are in the process of doing so. My motivation for writing this is to share my experience of BACCH with other serious Hifi enthusiasts using stereo systems and to encourage them to adopt this unique technology [1].

If you only want the “Executive summary” of this, please go straight to “Listening impressions” below.

My first experience with cross-talk cancellation came from using Carver C9 units (Holographic Generators) These used IC- OP amps (operational amplifiers) although good for their day (1970’s 80’s) they had less than ideal signal to noise ratio, a potential for line noise in some systems (impedance mis-match often requiring isolation transformers) and signal processing was done in the analogue domain not the digital. Their ability to accurately cancel cross-talk without introducing coloration was limited (even with extensive modifications to their circuits). BACCH (Band Assembled Crosstalk Cancellation Hierarchy) uses proprietary digital sound processing to achieve a true high-quality reference grade playback signal.
I had been following Edgar’s developments of BACCH (as well as other peoples’ approaches) to achieve realistic real-life sounding holography, but realised that Edgar had the deep technical understanding of psycho-acoustics and mathematical ability necessary to write the algorithms required to develop such a system. A system that was suitable and acceptable to the very high expectations of serious Hi fi enthusiasts – oka “people hopelessly addicted to sound reproduction” :) Although Edgar’s professional career involves Quantum Theory, Astrophysics and interstellar plasma propulsion systems etc. at heart he is an audiophile just like us.

The following is the most important point I’d like to make when considering BACCH.

Like most of us, I’ve spent significant money on everything hifi from power re-generators, fuses, cables, Schumann generators, dacs, isolators, Ethernet switches etc. We all chase the equipment that if correctly coupled and integrated into our systems may give us that extra 5% or 10% that we didn’t have before…be it at a huge financial cost. My friends have set their uber expensive gear up in my room because they tell me “It sounds better than anywhere else.” I believe that the main reason for this is because most people are not addressing the very things that erode the holographic sound-stage most of us are after… cross talk from speakers to our ears and reflections from untreated rooms.
This is what BACCH addresses (see heading below, Speaker choice and room). I’m not saying that all those other components don’t matter but what I am saying is that bang for buck, the BACCH system will give you what you always dreamed of (hence my username over a system without it….. no matter how much you spend on your exotic system!
What I have come to realise is that despite a friend owning a $140k (AUD) DAC, another $60k (at least) in cables and more $$…. for other gear, in my room, although sounding superb, for me, doesn’t compare favourably to having the BACCH4Mac doing its magic with the same mix of components. Even my “budget” system with the BACCH has way more holography, realism and emotional connection than without it. Knowing what I know now, I would recommend buying a BACCH system, not spend outrageous money on expensive cables 3 etc. walk away with bucket loads of $$ saved and have a system that is far superior in sound quality then one costing many times more.

BACCH4Mac

I took the plunge a couple of years ago and ordered the BACCH4Mac and I can categorically say this has been the most significant inclusion and upgrade to my system to date. If you can’t yet afford to buy a BACCH SP (Sound Purifier), do what I did, buy the Bacch4Mac, use your existing good quality speakers, cables etc. and DAC (however the B4Mac system has its own dac) and be the envy of your friends that just spent many times more on exotic components than what it cost for the B4Mac system with sensibly priced cables etc2
Even after I purchased my BACCH, friends urged me to sell my expensive server and use the Mac’s internal player (via Roon/Tidal) ….I have to say, I had major doubts about this however I confess they were right. After two years of not wanting to let my server go, I’m now selling it 3
The latest BACCH4Mac version 8.1 (Mid-June 2019) installed on the Mac Mini is a dream. It’s stable, reliable full of features and easy to use. The team at Theoretica have done a wonderful job of improving what was already a magnificent product!! They notify you of the free upgrades as soon as they are available and provide step by step instructions of how to install it correctly. The software only operates on Apple hardware and minimum requirements are specified on the Theoretica’s web site https://www.theoretica.us . Obviously the normal cautions apply regarding not plugging/unplugging cables etc. when the hardware is powered. If you choose to go down the BACCH4Mac software route, you need to be reasonably familiar with computers and be familiar with Apple OS.
If you just want to dip your feet in the water, are competent with computers and have the appropriate Apple device you might like to try the B4Mac Into-level software-only option on offer (for $980 USD). It provides “u-BACCH” filters created by a choice of either taped-measured distances (between speakers etc) or via (adjustable) audible tones (using the graphic user interface). Each method is very straight forward and allows you to set the system up quickly and have a listen.
Given the cost/benefit analysis discussed previously I highly recommend buying the complete B4Mac Audiophile, Plus or the Pro package like I did. They will set you up with a pre-configured Mac mini for a small additional cost (No amount of $$ or pleading with Apple Australia would convince them to build me a Mac Mini with an Ivy bridge processor, so I had no trouble deciding). Letting Theoretica take care of it all means you will likely have a far better experience knowing its set up correctly and get to enjoy the warranty that it comes with. The Audiophile and higher optioned versions come with in ear microphones to enable you to create a third type of BACCH filter (in addition to the u-BACCH filters). The Audiophile option and above also has head tracking ability and changes cross-talk filtering 4 on the fly to compensate for your head movements, thereby maintaining very strong holographic images, separation and layering etc.


The only issues I found with using the BACCH4Mac

If like me, your listening position is around 3m or more you may need longer usb cable/s to make the recorded filters via the RME digital audio interface that comes with the B4M (Ear mics plug into RME, then usb into Mac mini then usb to your dac, if you use your own). This will likely necessitate using an external phantom power supply for the RME (usb standard is only 0.5A @ 5v – not enough for long usb run). Also, if using your own external dac (as I do) you’ll find you will need to buy both a macOS compatible Blue tooth keyboard and mouse (to log in and use Roon etc. – I also use the Roon app on my android phone to control Roon.) Do not buy ones that require the little plug in dongles… straight blue tooth only (v3.0 or higher), thereby freeing up 2 usb slots!! Having an apple keyboard also avoids confusion when us windows people try to substitute the wrong key for the “command” key on the Apple keyboard…. This is not an issue if you are an Apple user!

BACCH SP

Finally, if you are not computer tech savvy or can’t be bothered tweaking software and/or don’t want to use a Mac Mini then the SP Series BACCH SP is for you. Completely self-contained one box turnkey solution (only the BACCH SP dio (digital in/out requires an external dac). SP stands for Sound Purifier. An accurate description of what they do! This range has the most advanced hardware to do all the processing and uses the very latest computing components……. My dream is to one day own a BACCH DIO and I’m saving hard for one!

Listening impressions (“Sensory perceptions with B4M” would be a better heading!)

When you listen to a stereo system with BACCH the sensation is almost overwhelming. The realism, the clarity (even compared to what you think is uber hi-fidelity) is extraordinary! When set up correctly you’ll have sounds jumping out of the walls and everywhere at you (at the same SPL). Your speakers really disappear. Forget ghost images…this stuff is really spooky in a good way The sounds seem to be “heard” by your brain directly. I mean it’s like your ears have been bypassed. Listening becomes even more addictive than before. It’s very exciting even after years of listening , I find myself still shaking my head in amazement. Am I really hearing this?
This is not a gimmick, it’s not a fly by night fad or some snake oil con. This IS the real thing; I believe it’s the future of digital stereo hi fi. I waited patiently for many years for this to be released and I can’t believe more people don’t know about it? It’s not creating anything that isn’t in the original recording, its purifying the sound quality by cancelling cross-talk contamination. By doing that, not only is it so much less fatiguing to listen to (ears to brain not confused by direction and magnitude of incoming sounds) but you get this magical 3-dimensional immersive sound field all around you ( something you can never achieve with surround sound and something you never completely achieve with the best hifi gear). When you go back to what you remember as your hi definition uber hi-resolution holographic hifi without BACCH (that you used to think was king) it sounds flatter, boring, and basically un-engaging compared to having BACCH in the system. There is no other way I could describe it.


Speaker choice and room treatment

My experience is that BACCH will work with most conventional speakers however speakers that have less off- axis are easier to implement. BACCH’s job is to cancel cross-talk. In addition, if the ratio of direct sound from driver to ears is shorter than reflected sounds, then that cancellation is more effective leading to better holography. I have used substantial room treatments (years before using BACCH) to limit the unwanted room reflections THAT DISTROY HOLLOGRAPHIC SOUND reproduction. So highly dispersive speakers in a highly reflective room is not an ideal situation if using BACCH or any speaker set up really. Notice how many more speaker manufacturers are using concave and not dome speakers these days? In order to limit in-room coupling/sound reflections from untreated rooms.
Don’t be discouraged to take up BACCH because you heard that you must have binaural recordings for it to work. Sure, not every recording produces perfect sounding BACCH 3d but I’ve not heard a track yet that sounds poorer with BACCH engaged. I listen to a wide range of music styles (more recently produced stuff than older these days) and the majority of them sound brilliant with BACCH. I urge anyone to make the effort and have a listen to BACCH and compare it with your existing system. I’ve done the exercise with a range of different components in my room and I much prefer BACCH 5 There are many other misconceptions about BACCH that I sometimes hear. Remember, this is not room correction software. It doesn’t modify signals to better suit your room or cancel bass nodes etc. None of that. I would say forget pre-formed notions of numbers/bit rates etc and let your ears be the judge!

Summary

If you are a serious hi-fier, I highly recommend BACCH. This is patented and tightly protected technology. They are continually updating and improving features and software etc. The team led by Edgar have put an incredible amount R&D into producing a range of BACCH packages to suit everyone and their support is exceptional. BACCH works! It’s the only one of its kind that does what it does! I’m lucky enough to experience this magic every time I “listen” to my stereo. Stop procrastinating and start enjoying your hi fi more than you ever have before! My only warning to you is there is no coming back. Once you hear it you WILL be addicted, no question about it, you just won’t want to go bacch to traditional stereo.

Whether you decide to use BACCH or not, I highly recommend you apply room treatment before spending a cent on anything else. A properly treated room will enable your speakers and other gear to reveal their full potential. Even if you don’t measure your rooms response (REW etc) simple treatments to reduce reflections such as thick carpet and wall drapes etc. will assist greatly.

Notes and other ramblings…
  • If you don’t use the head tracking feature and are sitting outside the sweet spot, it just sounds like regular stereo.
  • Incorporating BACCH with conventional speakers having wide dispersion and in untreated rooms still gives you holography but not nearly as strong as with directive speakers in treated rooms.
  • I think Theorectica uses Apple OS for security reasons because they don’t want anyone hacking the system and stealing the software?
  • My adoption and acceptance of BACCH in my system has made me stop and re-evaluate the design of a 3-way speaker I’ve been wanting to build for a long time. That’s how significant the BACCH experience has been for me.
Examples of some of the dacs I have used in my room with and without BACCH (without listing every amp, component etc) just to demonstrate the calibre of gear I’m familiar with; PS Audio DS, Chord Dave, MSB Select DAC 2 with top optional upgrades (clock & dual power bases). The two R2R ladder dacs I own at present are; Denafrips Terminator (NOS mode) & Rockna WD Signature (Hybrid mode).


[1] Additional features available include BACCH for headphones and ability to create your own binaural recordings, Refer to https://www.theoretica.us for options. Please NB: the BACCH (SP) & BACCH dsp used in the BACCH4Mac are different. Both offer the ability to configure master clocking preference depending on the BACCH package you are using.

2 I’m not a cable denier quite the opposite, in fact the speaker cables (& other loom) made by a company starting with “S” in their S range are by FAR the best I have ever heard!.............. in a system without BACCH.

3 I upgraded my Mini with the Uptone Audio DC psu mod using their JS 2 regulated linear psu. Also be aware that the mini Theoretica link you up with has the Ivy pro i7 quad core processor with 16 Gig ram. This is the preferred model optimised for audio. Even Theorectica’s Intro level software option requires at lease Quad Core and at least 16 Gig to run the dsp software.

4 The word filter has a negative connotation as if something is being removed from the whole (sound quality). This is not the case in fact BACCH is a sound purifying system, a bi-product of its crosstalk cancellation process.

5 With the RME digital audio Interface connected the sample rate is 96kHz which is more than adequate for creating excellent crosstalk cancelling filters. After creating BACCH filters (using the in-ear mics) the RME can be disconnected and a usb cable run straight from the Mini to your dac. You just need to install and configure a programme called Soundflower. Once this is done you can increase the sample rate from 96 kHz to 192 kHz. Apparently it is not necessary, but I‘m about to try it…..
 
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#2
Hello GBRB,

I wonder if the BACCH algorithm will perform loudspeaker first arrival EQ as well as correct impulse response as part of it's calculations? I may have asked Dr. C about this at some point, but have forgotten his answer. Do you know?
 

PierreV

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#3
Like most of us, I’ve spent significant money on everything hifi from power re-generators, fuses, cables, Schumann generators, dacs, isolators, Ethernet switches
Let me tell you a secret: most of us aren't audiophools around here.
 
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#6
I'm happy to answer any questions about BACCH or other equipment I have experience with and offer helpful information to help you short cut your hi fi journey with least amount of pain. For example, the speakers shown in the avatar above work well with BACCH however they can sound really bad if paired with the wrong amps (partly because of their low impedance). We found that they sounded their best when paired with these monoblocks; http://i.nextmedia.com.au/avhub/aus..._technical_brain_tbp_zero_ex_review_lores.pdf Also sounding excellent was the smaller TB zero integrated amp (grossly under-rated). Both these amps are outstanding and are owned by my friend here in QLD.
I don't claim to know everything there is to know about hi fi (far from it) but I have been into it ALL of my life. My friends and I are not hifi importers or distributors or professional reviewers. I wrote my review because I am wanting to share my excitement about BACCH. I want to save people the agony of continually spending money on their hi fi addiction only to find it was never truly reaching their full expectations. If you tried BACCH and its not for you that's fine. Personal tastes are what make us different.

Please note: you can only purchase BACCH4Mac through Theoretica Applied Physics web site. As far as I am aware they don't distribute through dealers (only the SP line is sold through selected dealerships?) and there is NO distributor in Australia! For the record I wasn't asked to write anything for Theorectica and I wasn't offered money or reward either.
Happy days and I hope your music brings you much joy.
 
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#8
Like most of us, I’ve spent significant money on everything hifi from power re-generators, fuses, cables, Schumann generators, dacs, isolators, Ethernet switches etc.
…..
Today I learned about Schumann generators. Should I get the Budda or Quan Yin Schumann generator to deepen the soundstage? What is the optimal placement?
https://www.orgoneenergy.org/products/buddha-schumann-generator?variant=37888146958

I also have a cat so the positive effect on my feline is a big plus as well.
 

GrimSurfer

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#9
The first post reads like a testimonial from an employee or family member of same.

Not giving me goosebumps. More like cramps. Not BACCH cramps, mind you, but abdominal ones.
 
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#11
Today I learned about Schumann generators. Should I get the Budda or Quan Yin Schumann generator to deepen the soundstage? What is the optimal placement?
https://www.orgoneenergy.org/products/buddha-schumann-generator?variant=37888146958

I also have a cat so the positive effect on my feline is a big plus as well.
Ah, I'm sorry I have no experience with that one. Mine is from Acoustic Revive ( R-888.) I'm usually strictly a science based individual, but an open minded one as well. I thought I'd try it. Not only does it benefit my listening but for me it has a very positive affect on my well being....I know big call! Its powered on 24/7 and is placed about 1.9m high up on the wall behind the speakers.
 

GrimSurfer

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#12
I have Baach4MAC intro version and love it. This post has good points about Baach4Mac and nice to read.
PierreV: Do you really need to be mean in this case and show that attitude?
It's more than @PierreV. You've stumbled onto a forum where touts, flakes, and audiophools don't garner any respect or patience.

That's why I like it here so much... it's like an oasis in the middle of a sea of stupidity.

Great critique @PierreV. Keep going brother!

Today I learned about Schumann generators. Should I get the Budda or Quan Yin Schumann generator to deepen the soundstage?
Today I learned about cults. Should I join one?

I'm usually strictly a science based individual, but an open minded one as well.
My sense is that you're not an English or philosophy major.
 
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Peter Leyenaar

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#13
GoosbumpsRbacch said:
The following is the most important point I’d like to make when considering BACCH.

Like most of us, I’ve spent significant money on everything hifi from power re-generators, fuses, cables, Schumann generators, dacs, isolators, Ethernet switches etc. We all chase the equipment that if correctly coupled and integrated into our systems may give us that extra 5% or 10% that we didn’t have before…be it at a huge financial cost. My friends have set their uber expensive gear up in my room because they tell me “It sounds better than anywhere else.” I believe that the main reason for this is because most people are not addressing the very things that erode the holographic sound-stage most of us are after… cross talk from speakers to our ears and reflections from untreated rooms.
This is what BACCH addresses (see heading below, Speaker choice and room). I’m not saying that all those other components don’t matter but what I am saying is that bang for buck, the BACCH system will give you what you always dreamed of (hence my username over a system without it….. no matter how much you spend on your exotic system!
What I have come to realise is that despite a friend owning a $140k (AUD) DAC, another $60k (at least) in cables and more $$…. for other gear, in my room, although sounding superb, for me, doesn’t compare favourably to having the BACCH4Mac doing its magic with the same mix of components. Even my “budget” system with the BACCH has way more holography, realism and emotional connection than without it. Knowing what I know now, I would recommend buying a BACCH system, not spend outrageous money on expensive cables 3 etc. walk away with bucket loads of $$ saved and have a system that is far superior in sound quality then one costing many times more.
uses the very latest computing components……. My dream is to one day own a BACCH DIO and I’m saving hard for one!
Peter Leyenaar said
I know a place where you can buy some nice cables for your system or for your friends with the $140K system, go here:

https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/det...-articulation-control-console-speaker-cables/
 
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#14
It's more than @PierreV. You've stumbled onto a forum where touts, flakes, and audiophools don't garner any respect or patience.

That's why I like it here so much... it's like an oasis in the middle of a sea of stupidity.

Great critique @PierreV. Keep going brother!



Today I learned about cults. Should I join one?



My sense is that you're not an English or philosophy major.
It's more than @PierreV. You've stumbled onto a forum where touts, flakes, and audiophools don't garner any respect or patience.

That's why I like it here so much... it's like an oasis in the middle of a sea of stupidity.

Great critique @PierreV. Keep going brother!



Today I learned about cults. Should I join one?



My sense is that you're not an English or philosophy major.
 
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#15
[/QUOTE
There are audiophools and there are people who have little or non knowledge about science and technologies but so narrow-minded so
It's more than @PierreV. You've stumbled onto a forum where touts, flakes, and audiophools don't garner any respect or patience.

That's why I like it here so much... it's like an oasis in the middle of a sea of stupidity.

Great critique @PierreV. Keep going brother!



Today I learned about cults. Should I join one?



My sense is that you're not an English or philosophy major.
There are audiophools out there. And there are also people with little or non knowledge on science and technologies and also narrow-minded so they never read and learn about technologies but just jump to conclusion. They never admire the research works of others.
Forget about cables, power generators etc. or even some expensive speakers you might own right now (you know that you spend more than 60-70% of the money to buy the brand-names).

Baach, DiracLive or the like is at least based on advanced research on DSP and lots of programming works. If you are a software developer or computer/electrical/electronics engineer, you should admire their works and creativity. Science is science, technology is technology. If you don’t believe it or have the product and cannot make it work for you, that is your problem or you are not good enough. If you don’t believe that SpaceX can send people to Mars in future, it is your mind has lots of doubts and you should go fool people that you are English master or a philosopher who should go to forums on poems instead.
 

PierreV

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#16
Baach, DiracLive or the like is at least based on advanced research on DSP and lots of programming works. If you are a software developer or computer/electrical/electronics engineer, you should admire their works and creativity. Science is science, technology is technology.
The fact that there is a lot of valid research and benefit in DSP is not ignored. That software could be excellent, that is not the point.

It is just that the tone of the initial post of this thread (which also happens to be the first post of that person) is so full of senseless audiophools tropes that either you roll on the floor laughing or you roll your eyes in disbelief.
 

Kal Rubinson

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#17
Like most of us, I’ve spent significant money on everything hifi from power re-generators, fuses, cables, Schumann generators, dacs, isolators, Ethernet switches etc.
I wonder if this is an accurate depiction of "most of us."
 

Peter Leyenaar

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#18
I wonder if this is an accurate depiction of "most of us."
Not my quote, my speaker cables cost me $20, nice 14 gauge speaker wire and plugs I still had, made them myself, I am not
bad at soldering, having built tube amps while in high school.
I think they are balanced, exactly the same length, the guy in the shop where I bought the wire told me so,as not to have any difference in speaker output;-)
 
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#19
The fact that there is a lot of valid research and benefit in DSP is not ignored. That software could be excellent, that is not the point.

It is just that the tone of the initial post of this thread (which also happens to be the first post of that person) is so full of senseless audiophools tropes that either you roll on the floor laughing or you roll your eyes in disbelief.
Get the main point and no need to be distracted by personal views. The main point of his post is his excitement about Baach and he would like to share how Baach transformed his experience of listening music. That is all. And he tried to save people from spending big money to things like cables etc., I can feel that. Thinking that he has anything to do with the company created Baach seems to me not making any sense. Nobody is that stupid. The company created Baach should be a group of very smart people and they don’t need to do that.

Some technologies can find big market and some has smaller market. For me, Baach is very excited technology but it is young, for one thing, and it has smaller group of users than cars, TV, 5.1 sound etc. Even in audio, it has smaller group of users than other established ones like 5.1. I would compare it with 3D movies which Avatar director tried to promote in 10 years back.

It is understandable that with its position now and young age, its target to hifi audio people for now makes sense.
I hope Baach can penetrate into consumer audio and car audio in the near future.
 

Thomas savage

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#20
It's interesting software, from what Iv seen it's not plug and play . You have to get a bit involved.

Certainly for 2 channel I was left thinking more folks should try it over say , a more expensive amp or DAC etc.

@Dialectic uses it , now you have had it a while mate are you still loving it?
 
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