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BACCH4Mac Pro Edition - For those considering BACCH

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I recently got the BACCH for Mac!
Before I describe my experience with BACCH, I want to say "YES" it sounds great in terms of neutrality with no coloration at all.
How to maximize its performance, can you share your experience? I don't listen to binaural music.
 
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onion

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Can you put up some screenshots of the app? Include the advanced settings screen with the composite data (showing xtc, impulse response and frequency response).

What speakers and any quirks about the room?

And have you contacted your support contact at Theoretica?
 
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In few words I would like to describe my experience with BACCH.
  • Customer service and technical support, "Superb" (100/100). Always available to answer my questions and address my concerns.
  • Return policy, "Superb" (100/100). Although I didn't return it but the customer service always assures me that I can return it with no questions asked (14 days trail period). I am extremely confident about their return policy.
  • Shipping, packaging and user guide material "Great" (89/100). I just wish if the packaging feels more premium. I have been informed that they are working on a comprehensive user guide which includes videos and PDF.
  • Voodoo meter (0/100), yes ZERO! There is no voodoo involved here, you should only expect science based claims and measurements.
  • Ease of use and BACCH interface, "Pending" (?/100). I need more time to evaluate it.
  • Sound quality (in general + neutrality , "Pending" (?/100). I need more time to evaluate it.
  • Does it deliver what it promises in terms of internal crosstalk cancellation, "Pending" (?/100). I need more time to evaluate it.
Room treatment:
  • 1st and 2nd reflection points absorbers (both side walls).
  • Diffuser, main wall.
  • Distance between tweeters (225 cm) and distance between speakers and listing position 265 cm.
I want to share with you few screenshots of the interface and measurements. I would be more than happy to hear your comments and suggestions. My goal is to intensify my experience with BACCH.
I also wold like to ask you to share with me a list of music tracks with great spatial cues. This will help me to perform a comparison between "BACCH" & "Bypass".
 

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Dialectic

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In few words I would like to describe my experience with BACCH.
  • Customer service and technical support, "Superb" (100/100). Always available to answer my questions and address my concerns.
  • Return policy, "Superb" (100/100). Although I didn't return it but the customer service always assures me that I can return it with no questions asked (14 days trail period). I am extremely confident about their return policy.
  • Shipping, packaging and user guide material "Great" (89/100). I just wish if the packaging feels more premium. I have been informed that they are working on a comprehensive user guide which includes videos and PDF.
  • Voodoo meter (0/100), yes ZERO! There is no voodoo involved here, you should only expect science based claims and measurements.
  • Ease of use and BACCH interface, "Pending" (?/100). I need more time to evaluate it.
  • Sound quality (in general + neutrality , "Pending" (?/100). I need more time to evaluate it.
  • Does it deliver what it promises in terms of internal crosstalk cancellation, "Pending" (?/100). I need more time to evaluate it.
My equipment:
  • Wilson Benesch, ACT EVO One speakers.
  • Wilson Benesch, Torus (a pair) subwoofers.
  • Lyngdorf 3400, amp + Room Perfect (room correction that addresses low frequencies). I took the BACCH measurement after activating the "Room Perfect".
  • 1st and 2nd reflection points absorbers (both side walls).
  • Diffuser, main wall.
  • Distance between tweeters (225 cm) and distance between speakers and listing position 265 cm.
I want to share with you few screenshots of the interface and measurements. I would be more than happy to hear your comments and suggestions. My goal is to intensify my experience with BACCH.
I also wold like to ask you to share with me a list of music tracks with great spatial cues. This will help me to perform a comparison between "BACCH" & "Bypass".
Have you tried any of the Chesky binaural+ albums? The Wycliffe Gordon album release in binaural+ is particularly spooky.

If you want some audiophile chestnuts that work well, Pink Floyd's "Money" and Weather Report's "Cucumber Slumber" (in both cases, the album versions) are stunning with BACCH.

I just finished messing with my system's calibration for a couple hours and need to go to bed. I'll look closely at your measurements later this week, but at first glance, the FR seems a little uneven below 1000 Hz for those speakers/subs with Lyngdorf correction. You might double check the Lyngdorf's settings.
 

onion

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Interesting - your system measures a lot better than mine (XTC and reflections). I also use a TDAI3400 (with M&K 300 speakers and M&K X10 subs). I didn't hear the difference immediately. I ignored it for a few weeks, then started using it again and a lightbulb moment went off in my brain. It has been much more consistent and easy to hear since that moment. So I do suspect there's a user-dependent psychoacoustic variable at play.

Even to this day, I find that the degree of spatial separation can vary from one listening session to the next. I strongly prefer the XTC filter turned on and the difference between the filter and the bypass is obvious (including blind listening which is easy to do as the levels are easy to adjust and the bypass button is so handily located).

I'm so happy with even this modest level of performance (XTC average -3.7dB) that I'm refurbishing a room for music listening that will be optimised for BACCH.
 

Ilkless

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I wonder if it's because of unindividualised filter + mediocre speaker directivity and FR. Wilson Benesch have never been a brand that engineered speakers for smooth response and directivity from every single measurement of their speakers I've seen. They are no Revel.
 

Ilkless

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@Ilkless speakers measurements do not tell you everything. So I have to disagree with you about WB vs Revel.
What do you mean by "unindividualised filter"?

Rather strange, then, to be using a filter that was only made possible with exactly the premise you reject (of how much the measurements relate to listening experience). The BACCH filter is only possible because measurements tell us a huge lot, if not everything. I meant, does the BACCH filter use your own HRTF as measured with the in-ear binaural mics? It is my understanding the uBACCH doesn't correct for HRTF.

ACT One Evo

wilson-benesch-act-one-evolution-aktivlautsprecher-53200.jpg


Square One (Stereophile)

915WBSQ1fig4.jpg
 
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onion

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I agree

For the Intro version:
Starting with version 6.0, BACCH-dSP includes the new u-BACCH module (which is the sole module in the BACCH4Mac Intro Edition). The u-BACCH module (where the “u” stands for universal) produces u-BACCH filters, which give 3D sound over loudpseakers (with no head tracking) based on the user's input of quick tape measuremets of the listening geometry.

For the Audiophile version and up:
Unlike other crosstalk cancellation technologies, BACCH® 3D Sound produces no tonal distortion and can be individualized to the listener’s head and ear shape, the particular response of the loudspeakers and the loudspeakers/listening configuration through a quick and easy calibration using the in-ear BACCH-BM binaural microphone.

If you have the audiophile version, you should definitely make a BACCH filter using the binaural mics, rather than u-BACCH filter.
 

Dialectic

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In few words I would like to describe my experience with BACCH.
  • Customer service and technical support, "Superb" (100/100). Always available to answer my questions and address my concerns.
  • Return policy, "Superb" (100/100). Although I didn't return it but the customer service always assures me that I can return it with no questions asked (14 days trail period). I am extremely confident about their return policy.
  • Shipping, packaging and user guide material "Great" (89/100). I just wish if the packaging feels more premium. I have been informed that they are working on a comprehensive user guide which includes videos and PDF.
  • Voodoo meter (0/100), yes ZERO! There is no voodoo involved here, you should only expect science based claims and measurements.
  • Ease of use and BACCH interface, "Pending" (?/100). I need more time to evaluate it.
  • Sound quality (in general + neutrality , "Pending" (?/100). I need more time to evaluate it.
  • Does it deliver what it promises in terms of internal crosstalk cancellation, "Pending" (?/100). I need more time to evaluate it.
Room treatment:
  • 1st and 2nd reflection points absorbers (both side walls).
  • Diffuser, main wall.
  • Distance between tweeters (225 cm) and distance between speakers and listing position 265 cm.
I want to share with you few screenshots of the interface and measurements. I would be more than happy to hear your comments and suggestions. My goal is to intensify my experience with BACCH.
I also wold like to ask you to share with me a list of music tracks with great spatial cues. This will help me to perform a comparison between "BACCH" & "Bypass".
Check out the list here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/recordings-for-bacch-users.2630/

I may add to the list this weekend if I find significant time to listen to new stuff.

Below is a photo showing my system's current crosstalk filter configuration and measurements, for any who are trying to figure out if their BACCH systems are configured properly. I am getting very strong 3D effects.

Screen Shot 2020-06-19 at 11.37.35 PM.png
 
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Dialectic

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Rather strange, then, to be using a filter that was only made possible with exactly the premise you reject (of how much the measurements relate to listening experience). The BACCH filter is only possible because measurements tell us a huge lot, if not everything. I meant, does the BACCH filter use your own HRTF as measured with the in-ear binaural mics? It is my understanding the uBACCH doesn't correct for HRTF.
Yes, the BACCH filters generated from intraaural microphone measurements compensate for HRTF.

A couple of us posted BACCH-DSP's measurements of simulated crosstalk cancellation, FR, and IR. While these measurements can give one an idea of how well BACCH may be working in a particular system, these measurements do not allow one to compare systems and rooms because these measurements depend in part on the shape of the measuring listener's head and ears.
 

onion

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I will soon be auditioning this with three different systems:

- Devialet Phantom Golds
- Dutch & Dutch 8Cs
- Steinway-Lyngdorf model S

Will be interested to see their relative performance with BACCH4Mac
 

andreasmaaan

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@Theoretica Appl. Physics, not sure if you're still lurking here, but was just wondering whether there was any progress with Bacch-X to report? I can see it's now listed on your website along with the other Bacch products. Do you have any technical documentation on it you could share?
 

Theoretica Appl. Physics

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@Theoretica Appl. Physics, not sure if you're still lurking here, but was just wondering whether there was any progress with Bacch-X to report? I can see it's now listed on your website along with the other Bacch products. Do you have any technical documentation on it you could share?

Hi andreasmaaan,

You must be referring to the website of our sister company BACCH Labs. Theoretica (www.theoretica.us) and BACCH Labs (www.bacch.com) are separate companies. We at Theoretica focus on developing the BACCH-SP and BACCH4Mac products for the audiophiles and Pro audio sectors, while BACCH Labs is a licensing company focused on licensing the various audio technologies that come out of Princeton University's 3D3A Lab. BACCH Labs's portfolio of licensable technologies is large and includes both BACCH 3D Sound and BACCH-X. BACCH 3D Sound is at the heart of Theoretica’s products (BACCH-SP and BACCH4Mac). BACCH X is an advanced wideband audio beaming technologies that relies on phased arrays and head tracking. While BACCH X is presently available for licensing through BACCH Labs it is not yet in any Theoretica products. We intend to add a BACCH X module to the Pro Edition of BACCH4Mac in 2021.

I am also taking this opportunity to announce that we will be officially releasing BACCH4Mac 9.5 this coming week. This latest version of our BACCH4Mac product has many improvements and features new functionality. The Pro Edition of BACCH4Mac 9.5 has our new BACCH-hs^3 and BACCH-sme technologies. The BACCH-hs^3 (head-steered sound spotlight) sub-module relies an HOA microphone to create a "high-order microphone beam" that can be steered anywhere in 3D space (using the BACCH-HT-Nav module) by simply looking in that direction, to significantly isolate sound sources in the beam from the background. The BACCH-sme (stereo mic emulation) allows the accuarte emulation of a variable-pattern pair of stereo mics for recording (or low-latency live monitoring) using a single HOA mic. More info can be found on the BACCH-dSP webpage (https://www.theoretica.us/bacch-dsp/).

Best regards,
Buddy
[email protected]
 

onion

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What happened?
I tried all of those out except the D&D8C - I auditioned the Kii Three instead.
I ended up getting Genelec 8341a with a single sub (so far).
The Phantoms are omnidirectional and don't produce a great stereo image in small rooms.
The Steinway-Lyngdorf had a very pleasing sound (probably related to its dipole design) but was not accurate in rendering with some smearing. I could only hear this after A/Bing with the Genelecs. They also worked least well with Bacch4Mac (again probably because of their dipole design).
The Kii three had too much bass for the room and was not as clear or well imaged as the Genelec.

It's quite possible that for a larger room, I may have preferred the S-L, Kii Three or D&D 8C. But the Genelec was a clear winner for this particular room.
 

andreasmaaan

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You must be referring to the website of our sister company BACCH Labs. Theoretica (www.theoretica.us) and BACCH Labs (www.bacch.com) are separate companies. We at Theoretica focus on developing the BACCH-SP and BACCH4Mac products for the audiophiles and Pro audio sectors, while BACCH Labs is a licensing company focused on licensing the various audio technologies that come out of Princeton University's 3D3A Lab. BACCH Labs's portfolio of licensable technologies is large and includes both BACCH 3D Sound and BACCH-X. BACCH 3D Sound is at the heart of Theoretica’s products (BACCH-SP and BACCH4Mac). BACCH X is an advanced wideband audio beaming technologies that relies on phased arrays and head tracking. While BACCH X is presently available for licensing through BACCH Labs it is not yet in any Theoretica products. We intend to add a BACCH X module to the Pro Edition of BACCH4Mac in 2021.

Thanks for the clarification. Will Theoretica or BACCH Labs also be producing or reselling appropriate phased-array loudspeakers to utilise the technology? And are there any technical papers or even just more detailed descriptions available on this tech? Cheers.
 
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