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BACCH4Mac Pro Edition - For those considering BACCH

Chansig

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The stand alone software cost 980 dollar. I've bought myself a mac in the Netherlands with the needed specs for 300 euro (325 dollar) incl a Samsung lcd TV, mouse wireless keyboard and some cables.

And maybe there will be a test where i can win a million dollars when i hear the difference with and without. I hope so. :)

Gr. Hans
 

phoenixdogfan

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There's loads of information on this forum of what it does including links to papers regarding interaural crosstalk cancellation and spatial imaging. The software itself measures the level of crosstalk cancellation. Quite ridiculous to lump this in with overpriced speaker cables.
Perhaps a bit overwrought re the speaker cable comparison, but this product as developed lacks an extensive documentation that what it does is a preferred method to enhance sound reproduction.

If it were, I would think there would be other providers at least attempting to do what Choureri is doing, and certainly more reviews. Nothing to speak of in Stereophile, Audiophile Style, ASR, Archimago's Musings, TAS, etc.

The only review I've ever found was by Michael LaVorgna on Audio Stream, and that was a completely sighted, subjectice review.

https://www.audiostream.com/content/bacch4mac-3d-audio-playback-system

So until what it precisely does to an input signal is analyzed, I feel the jury is out on this one. I don't doubt Bacch4mac does something, I'm just not yet convinced that what it does is either effective or even desirable.
 

Ilkless

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Perhaps a bit overwrought re the speaker cable comparison, but this product as developed lacks an extensive documentation that what it does is a preferred method to enhance sound reproduction.

If it were, I would think there would be other providers at least attempting to do what Choureri is doing, and certainly more reviews. Nothing to speak of in Stereophile, Audiophile Style, ASR, Archimago's Musings, TAS, etc.

The only review I've ever found was by Michael LaVorgna on Audio Stream, and that was a completely sighted, subjectice review.

https://www.audiostream.com/content/bacch4mac-3d-audio-playback-system

So until what it precisely does to an input signal is analyzed, I feel the jury is out on this one. I don't doubt Bacch4mac does something, I'm just not yet convinced that what it does is either effective or even desirable.

But there are published white papers and AES papers. That's a damn lot more documentation, in much more detail than a lot of tweaks.
 

onion

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Perhaps a bit overwrought re the speaker cable comparison, but this product as developed lacks an extensive documentation that what it does is a preferred method to enhance sound reproduction.

If it were, I would think there would be other providers at least attempting to do what Choureri is doing, and certainly more reviews. Nothing to speak of in Stereophile, Audiophile Style, ASR, Archimago's Musings, TAS, etc.

The only review I've ever found was by Michael LaVorgna on Audio Stream, and that was a completely sighted, subjectice review.

https://www.audiostream.com/content/bacch4mac-3d-audio-playback-system

So until what it precisely does to an input signal is analyzed, I feel the jury is out on this one. I don't doubt Bacch4mac does something, I'm just not yet convinced that what it does is either effective or even desirable.

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Soundstage Ultra

Earlier in this thread, I posted a link to a seminar hosted by Prof Choueiri. This goes into binaural audio and stereo imaging in depth, and uses the BACCH4Mac software for much of the time.
 

Thomas savage

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The BACCH software turns cheap Sony headphones into a amazing listening experience. Can't remember the model I listened to they were @Dialectic pair.

If it were me and a had £1000 for a pair of headphones I'd spend it BACCH and whatever is left on a pair of open back cans.
 

Habu

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The BACCH software turns cheap Sony headphones into a amazing listening experience. Can't remember the model I listened to they were @Dialectic pair.

If it were me and a had £1000 for a pair of headphones I'd spend it BACCH and whatever is left on a pair of open back cans.

Hijacked account?
Could we close this topic ? pure delirium inside or maybe hidden humor !
 

Thomas savage

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Could we close this topic ? pure delirium inside or maybe hidden humor !
It can be closed to you if you find it distressing.

This software makes more difference to what you hear than 99% of the audio equipment some of you obsess about . Your free to discuss 100 SINAD Vs 98 lol

I don't understand the objection
 

Habu

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06CD31C4-5D44-43CD-AC2C-3DB62846CDE7.jpeg
 

Dialectic

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The BACCH software turns cheap Sony headphones into a amazing listening experience. Can't remember the model I listened to they were @Dialectic pair.

If it were me and a had £1000 for a pair of headphones I'd spend it BACCH and whatever is left on a pair of open back cans.
They were Sennheiser HD600s. I use them with BACCH only because I think they are superior to the two (more expensive) pairs of audiophile 'phones I own.

Perhaps I'll get some Stax 'phones for the BACCH system someday....
 

Dialectic

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Could we close this topic ? pure delirium inside or maybe hidden humor !
BACCH is real technology. It achieves a massive improvement in realism on recordings made in natural acoustic spaces. The sound from my BACCH/D&D system is startlingly realistic and as good as I've heard anywhere.

The folks I've known who didn't like BACCH either (i) disliked the complexity that it adds to an audio system (perhaps a fair complaint, but I dunno, I don't hear people say this about turntables, for example) or (ii) didn't like what it did to recordings of popular music.

I prefer listening to classical music, so for me, it's totally transformed the listening experience, for the better.
 

Dialectic

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For folks thinking about buying BACCH4Mac, a major upgrade was released yesterday. I quickly discovered a minor bug affecting only certain configurations of Mac. I reported the bug to Theoretica's email address. Within an hour, I got a personal phone call about work to remedy the bug.

Last night an update fixing the bug was released.

For those of us who have experience dealing with companies in the high-end audio industry, what Theoretica provides is a somewhat unbelievable level of support.
 

Thomas savage

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BACCH is real technology. It achieves a massive improvement in realism on recordings made in natural acoustic spaces. The sound from my BACCH/D&D system is startlingly realistic and as good as I've heard anywhere.

The folks I've known who didn't like BACCH either (i) disliked the complexity that it adds to an audio system (perhaps a fair complaint, but I dunno, I don't hear people say this about turntables, for example) or (ii) didn't like what it did to recordings of popular music.

I prefer listening to classical music, so for me, it's totally transformed the listening experience, for the better.
Yea , there's some software interface messing about I don't love and you can argue some of the effects can seem distracting but if I spent time listening to music at home with headphones I'd consider this software mandatory for me at least.
 

onion

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They were Sennheiser HD600s. I use them with BACCH only because I think they are superior to the two (more expensive) pairs of audiophile 'phones I own.

Perhaps I'll get some Stax 'phones for the BACCH system someday....

I have Stax headphones. They work great. However, for me, the sound through speakers in the room is so much more impactful that I rarely use the headphones. I'm soundproofing rooms instead.
 

phoenixdogfan

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But there are published white papers and AES papers. That's a damn lot more documentation, in much more detail than a lot of tweaks.
Are those theoretical discussions of Choueiri or hands on examination of the product? White papers are nice, but until the finished product is
It can be closed to you if you find it distressing.

This software makes more difference to what you hear than 99% of the audio equipment some of you obsess about . Your free to discuss 100 SINAD Vs 98 lol

I don't understand the objection
I'm perfectly willing to be open minded about this software. My only points being that (1) what it does is put forth for the most part at the level of theory and white papers, rather than reviews of the in-hand product, (2) I don't see anyone putting forth measurables to document the exact effect it creates (3) I am unaware of any psycho accoustic research, including double blind research, on statistically significant groups to indicate that the effect created by the product is something listeners prefer (a la the Harmon Spin-o-Rama studies), (4) the threshold level of the measurable needed to attain a satisfactory effect, (5) studies on which transducers work best with the program b/c Baacch4Mac very apparently, even from the testimonials, works better on some speakers than others (with the most favorable testimonial reported by D & D8c users).

Moreover, if this software were so useful and so universally applicable why not do something other than a pricing strategy clearly intended to skim the market? The only reason, for example it needs the BabyFace is to supply 48v phantom power for the binaural mics when measuring the user's HRTF. There are cheaper interfaces that supply the 48v and good A to D converters like the FocusRite Scarlett, and numerous binaural mics offered on Amazon which could fulfill the bill while lowering the hardware bill considerably. And the rest is software. Why after five years on the market isn't there a version which runs on Window's boxes?

I can see a period during which some high prices for market skimming occurs to build up a demand for the product and recoup development costs, but what's being done so far, as I see it, isn't even that. So eventually why not price it to achieve greater market penetration (and meanwhile get the software reviewed). It's software. Software can run on lots of machines and if it's as revolutionary as many here are suggesting, it would make its designer way more money to sell at a lower unit price to thousands of audiophiles or semi audiophiles, than he's going to make selling it at $5-7k a pop to tens of people.

That's what eventually occurred with room correction. We started out with $4-5 k hardware units from Tact and others, and within a few years we had aCCourate and Dirac Live and many other software programs that could run on Macs, Windows, and a variety of AV Control Centers, and sold for l.t.$500. That's the natural course that something like this software should follow if it does anything worthwhile. Unfortunately, I'm unaware of little if any progress by Bacch along these lines.
 
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onion

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Fair enough critique of the marketing strategy. It remains a niche product for now. At the moment, the technology only works well for a single person sitting at the listening position. Spatial imaging collapses quickly laterally and degrades (more slowly) front to back. So for now, it may not be that easy a sell for households where more than one person is listening.

Interestingly, speakers can be placed anywhere. If they can crack the multi-person listening problem, I think it will develop mass market appeal very quickly (WAF)
 

Eurasian

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Hello Dialectic and others with BACCH experience,

I have a BACCH system in mothballs because I was never able to get head-tracking to work consistently. As you know, this software is for Mac OS only. I am also using Audiolense XO for crossover and room correction duty with an active 3-way system (and love it), and would like to combine the two. AL is Windows only. Do you know if it would be possible to somehow stream Amazon HD music through BACCH on my Mac Mini then to my Dell XPS AL convolver? I also have Babyface Pro if it needs to sit in between the two computers. Sorry for my computer ignorance, and any comments or advice will be greatly appreciated.

BTW, I did use BACCH with Sanders ESLs, but moved on to large controlled directivity horns over 2 x 15" bass bins for a variety of reasons, but mostly because the Sanders are too directional for listening outside the sweet spot.

Best wishes,
David
 

Eurasian

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What happened with head tracking? The bug I just reported pertained to head tracking...

I wear glasses and like to listen in a relatively dark room, but even in my well lit office, the head tracker would lose me. I was very frustrated with it and packed it away. This revived thread has rekindled my interest and I would like to try BACCH again with the newest software, but only if it will work with my Audiolense system.
 

Eurasian

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BACCH supports a variety of different cameras now. I will try to find out if any of those cameras work better in low-light environments. I would love to turn the lights off in my listening room while I listen...

Maybe there are IR trackers that will work with BACCH4Mac? I know that the early $50,000 flagship units had optional IR trackers. If this is a possibility with B4M l will definitely give it a try!
 

Eurasian

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Version notes for the latest major release recommend a camera with optical zoom for distant listening positions or dim lighting conditions. The notes go on to state that this camera has been extensively tested and works at distances over 10m. Webcams with higher resolutions are not recommended.

Hi Dialectic,

I'll definitely try one of these! I have the standard Logitech 1080p and am not impressed. Do you know if any IR sensors are supported?
 
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