• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are daily reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

7.1.4 setup, Genelec vs KEF

dmilller

Active Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2021
Messages
101
Likes
62
For ATMOS music this is different - for best quality demands are higher.

I'm not sure I get the point of Atmos music. It's dramatic and covers up some problems with a stereo setup of EQ and base management. But it seems to me that the more dramatic effects don't relate to a real performance. A good stereo recording on a good setup has a lot of spatial information without the inauthenticity of the Atmos releases I hear from Apple Music.

I'm sure ART is impressive, although I doubt it's ever installed by a homeowner. I haven't tried the standard Dirac base management upgrade but I should.
 

IamJF

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2023
Messages
457
Likes
568
Location
Austria
Atmos music uses the rear channels often differently and full instruments in full level can be placed there. In Atmos movies there are mostly "noises" and environment in these speakers ...
Mixing music in Atmos is in it's baby shoes ... it will envolve. But a proper surround mix is really cool! But you recognise when switching back to stereo, suddenly everything goes "flat" in comparison.

ART is for serious home cinemas. When you add up the costs ... you can also pay 16-20k for a really good preamp. Building bass arrays is common in the home cinema world, and as you have to build the room anyways adding a few subwoofers is not a big thing. It just would be cool when Denon would deliver a preamp way cheaper with Dirac ART ... (and digital outputs - just to make me happy!)
 

Sancus

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Messages
2,916
Likes
7,591
Location
Canada
A good stereo recording on a good setup has a lot of spatial information without the inauthenticity of the Atmos releases I hear from Apple Music.
The vast majority of stereo releases are highly inauthentic with the spatial information almost entirely constructed by the mixers, not recorded in any real sense. (This isn't really bad, it's just a requirement of the format to sound any good)

Some of the most authentic recordings that exist are 2L's multichannel releases like Magnificat. They don't do post-recording mixing, it's all done in venue with microphone placement only. And because they actually capture the reflections directly, you aren't hearing whatever your room made up like with stereo. You hear what the mics at those positions recorded.
 
Last edited:

IamJF

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2023
Messages
457
Likes
568
Location
Austria
Was prepared to dislike these direct recordings but these are VERY good! Respect, it needs a lot of flair to get this so perfectly right!
Let's see if there is music in the catalog I like to listen to ;-)

p.s.: They also have the score online for many of their pieces - this will be a nice christmas order :)
 
Last edited:

Descartes

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
2,044
Likes
1,035
Some of my favorite:


 

widz

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Messages
8
Likes
10
Similar build here for 5.4.1 as I didn't have width for 7.

8341 LCR
8341 rear (I come from a post production space so like having proper rears)
8330 over head (8331 smashed budget)
7370 for both bass management & LFE
GLM on all
Lexicon processor
 

holdingpants01

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 18, 2023
Messages
596
Likes
874
the cool thing about bass management in GLM is that the crossover can be set for each speaker separately, I don't cut off my mains at all, center 8341 is cut off at 50 or 60Hz, and all 8330 are at 80Hz
 

juliangst

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 11, 2021
Messages
942
Likes
952
Location
Germany
Does stacking room correction software like GLM and Dirac work well?
For a high end setup I would in theory definitely want Dirac ART but the W371 or 8381A also require GLM for setting the crossover point.
 

holdingpants01

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 18, 2023
Messages
596
Likes
874
Does stacking room correction software like GLM and Dirac work well?
For a high end setup I would in theory definitely want Dirac ART but the W371 or 8381A also require GLM for setting the crossover point.
you can skip the room correction part in GLM and just use phase adjustment, bass management, crossovers and time delays
 

widz

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2024
Messages
8
Likes
10
Yeah as above, you can treat the genelec configurable active crossovers etc but side step the room compensation.
 

Sancus

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Messages
2,916
Likes
7,591
Location
Canada
Does stacking room correction software like GLM and Dirac work well?
For a high end setup I would in theory definitely want Dirac ART but the W371 or 8381A also require GLM for setting the crossover point.
I use GLM, Audyssey and sub peqs calculated by MSO and it works fine. The one caveat is you need to manually make sure the two systems have similar target curves, otherwise the second one you setup will try to undo what the first one did.
 

JustJones

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
1,670
Likes
2,307
Location
Southeast US
Looks like OP has been missing for about 3 months any update on how the project is coming along?
 

dmilller

Active Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2021
Messages
101
Likes
62
The vast majority of stereo releases are highly inauthentic with the spatial information almost entirely constructed by the mixers, not recorded in any real sense. (This isn't really bad, it's just a requirement of the format to sound any good)

Some of the most authentic recordings that exist are 2L's multichannel releases like Magnificat. They don't do post-recording mixing, it's all done in venue with microphone placement only. And because they actually capture the reflections directly, you aren't hearing whatever your room made up like with stereo. You hear what the mics at those positions recorded.
I agree with that. But a good stereo mix played on a well tuned system can present a huge soundstage if desired. I've listened to many Atmos mixes on Apple music. The only point seems to be to place secondary instruments in fairly arbitrary positions around the room and give a big sound.

I found multichannel to be pleasing on sound systems with problems. I don't see any point once a good system is dialed in.

I do still listen to music on 7.2.4 instead of 2.2 when I'm too lazy to fire up Roon and flip a couple of mechanical switches.
 
Last edited:

Descartes

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
2,044
Likes
1,035
I agree with that. But a good stereo mix played on a well tuned system can present a huge soundstage if desired. I've listened to many Atmos mixes on Apple music. The only point seems to be to place secondary instruments in fairly arbitrary positions around the room and give a big sound.

I found multichannel to be pleasing on sound systems with problems. I don't see any point once a good system is dialed in.

I do still listen to music on 7.4.2 instead of 2.2 when I'm too lazy to fire up Roon and flip a couple of mechanical switches.
Apple Music ATMOS mix is not consistent some songs are great others not so good! Also I thought ATMOS was supposed to be able to do 9.2.6 but for some reason when playing an ATMOS mix with the Apple TV I only get 7 channels?
 

juliangst

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 11, 2021
Messages
942
Likes
952
Location
Germany
The most I got out of Apple Music through MacOS was 7.1.4 which is the industry standart. I don't think 9.x.x mixes exist.
 

Descartes

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 27, 2020
Messages
2,044
Likes
1,035
The most I got out of Apple Music through MacOS was 7.1.4 which is the industry standart. I don't think 9.x.x mixes exist.
Interesting I thought ATMOS was a discrete encoding format that was supposed to use all the channels?

Movies encoded in ATMOS use all the 9.4.6!
 

juliangst

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Dec 11, 2021
Messages
942
Likes
952
Location
Germany
Interesting I thought ATMOS was a discrete encoding format that was supposed to use all the channels?

Movies encoded in ATMOS use all the 9.4.6!
Atmos has static and dynamic objects.

Static objects are directly applied to the bed layer which is 7.1.2.
Dynamic objects (like helicopters or bullets flying around) can be used by any number of speakers and the decoder figures out which speakers to use.

It really depends on the movie and music how many speakers are used.
Some movies don't have any dynamic objects so you will only receive a 7.1.2 signal (if you have a 7.1.4 setup the front top row will play the same as the rear top row).

With music I've seen a lot of content that doesn't use the center channel or any top channels at all.

So yes, some movies that have a lot of dynamic objects will use all speakers.
 

IamJF

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2023
Messages
457
Likes
568
Location
Austria
I never tested myself but the test I found on youtube from a reliable installer mostly detected 7.1.2 coded into movies. Which makes probably sense for big audiences so everybody get's the same ceiling information?
For music 7.1.4 seems more standard.
 
Top Bottom