Audiophiles are those who solve non-problems with too much money

[Blumlein 88]

The problem with stupid people that have money is eventually they can attain critical mass and the market starts to cater to them (since that is where the money is). At a minimum, it artificially inflates the price of things. Worse is creating an artificial demand for poor designs that are viewed as somehow "better" and desirable, and creating market pressures that force otherwise good products out of the market that don't conform to established orthodoxy. Great example is LPs. Amazing technology that could surpass things like reel-to-reel and other formats in terms of sound quality... back in the late 70's. With the advent of digital its now thoroughly obsolete, but records keep selling and NEW high-end turn-tables continue to be made, many of which are complete s*** performance-wise compared to old-school Japanese ones that sold for a tiny fraction of the cost in the 80's. Same goes with tubes. They are a complete joke compared to transistors and SOTA switching technology in terms of linearity. But people keep buying them because they are a e s t h e t i c and they don't realize distortion is harder to hear than you think. Because who doesn't want some space heaters that progressively wear out like a crappy old lightbulb? Its quite absurd in the grand scheme of things. It would be one thing if people did this stuff knowing it was inferior, but still want to keep a technology alive or have a physical copy of something, which there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing. But no, they literally think its better than digital and solid state which just buries everything subjectivist-audiophile in terms of performance.

However, few, fewer than a normal amount of people you speak about are stupid. You might say even smart people do stupid things, but the people aren't stupid. They also are influenced by other people. Once you are into the tube thing or the LP thing plenty of others you know (who also aren't stupid) are along on the same ride of sensation. So while there are plenty of absurdities involved there is more to it than that. It is no more absurd than upgraded from a DAC that is already audibly transparent to one which is better measuring (which you'll in no way hear) when your original DAC could last 10 or 20 years without wearing out.

 

[Blumlein 88]

True. But it is totally fine to solve non-problems as a hobby. I used tourbillon in fine watches as an example. No matter how precise you can produce a mechanical watch, it will never beat a smartphone that is synchronized to some atomic clock. But it can be a great hobby.


Exactly! I salute them. I am a hedonist myself.

Why would the incredibly expensive under-performing watch be a great hobby, but messing about with tube amps isn't? You cannot even say the watch is a status symbol any more than tube amps. Other than Rolex, no one whose hobby isn't watches would notice or think anything about an expensive mechanical watch. The proud wearer may think he has some status symbol or display of good taste and 90% of the public wouldn't be impressed if you told them what it was. They'd be impressed if you told them what it cost, but probably most of the impression for majority would be "a fool and his money......."

 

[curiouspeter]

Why would the incredibly expensive under-performing watch be a great hobby, but messing about with tube amps isn't? You cannot even say the watch is a status symbol any more than tube amps. Other than Rolex, no one whose hobby isn't watches would notice or think anything about an expensive mechanical watch. The proud wearer may think he has some status symbol or display of good taste and 90% of the public wouldn't be impressed if you told them what it was. They'd be impressed if you told them what it cost, but probably most of the impression for majority would be "a fool and his money......."

It is a signaling mechanism. Being able to only impress the "right" people can be appealing.

Those who own Gryphon gear do not care about impressing the Sonos crowd. They just want to look down on the Luxman owners. Very silly. But very human.

Is Rolex even considered "luxury" by the watch connoisseurs?

 

[Blumlein 88]

It is a signaling mechanism. Being able to only impress the "right" people can be appealing.

Those who own Gryphon gear do not care about impressing the Sonos crowd. They just want to look down on the Luxman owners. Very silly. But very human.

I thought it was McIntosh owners they wanted to look down on.

Is Rolex even considered "luxury" by the watch connoisseurs?

I have no idea. Not a watch connoisseur myself. Wore an electronic Seiko for 32 years because it was tough, waterproof and kept excellent time. Now and again wear a Citizen Eco-drive for the same reasons, and it is a bit more stylish than my Seiko. Otherwise watches aren't important to me. Not denigrating those who are watch connoisseurs, but they are much like turntable owners. Fascinated by various ways of improving something hopelessly anachronistic from a performance stand point that can never get in the ballpark of accuracy of cheap modern alternatives no matter how much you spend.

I understand people like classic car collectors a little bit more. Those devices offer an experience unlike modern devices even if less good and overly expensive. A watch to my way of thinking doesn't do that other than the experience of having to "set the time" every so often. But most people have some niche hobbies they enjoy that go beyond simple functionality.

 

[solderdude]

Is this a fair statement?

I have nothing against people who spend money on the economy. People buy $200K mechanical watches when the clock on a cheap Android phone is much more accurate. A tourbillon solves a non-problem, but it is very cool to look at.

For the insanely rich other rules apply.
For people owning multi million dollar houses, boats and whatnot uber expensive watches, audio, video etc is a no brainer. They do not have to watch the costs. They can buy whatever is on the market or even have stuff custom made.

For people who have to save up for months just to be able to buy a real Rolex or expensive audio device hoping this is IT I would call them audiophools.
This for spending too much and believing it will give them everlasting joy. It won't you will be disappointed and want something more.
They only believe they are solving a 'problem' by throwing more money at something.

Not all audiophiles (at least those that fit that description) are audiophools.
One can be an audiophile without spending more than a few hundred dollars in total.

 

[mhardy6647]

To me it's worse than just that. Expensive watches, jewelry, even a trophy wife: none of these are flying under a false flag. They are what they obviously are, and no more. Audiophilia is a big con man game, and the people getting conned are its most vocal disciples.

I don't think I agree, FWIW... do you really think a guy* who buys, say, one of these, cares about anything but (umm...) style -- and bragging rights?

EDIT: or one, or two (or more?!) of these...

I (still) think the case of trophy watches is the best analog analogy. A multi-hundred thousand dollar Swiss-made watch keeps measurably and demonstrably worse time than a $15 Casio. I don't think accuracy is a prime driver for the market for the former.
____________
* Pretty sure most of the market is at least genotypically male.

 

[fpitas]

I don't think I agree, FWIW... do you really think a guy* who buys, say, one of these, cares about anything but (umm...) style -- and bragging rights?

EDIT: or one, or two (or more?!) of these...

I (still) think the case of trophy watches is the best analog analogy. A multi-hundred thousand dollar Swiss-made watch keeps measurably and demonstrably worse time than a $15 Casio. I don't think accuracy is a prime driver for the market for the former.
____________
* Pretty sure most of the market is at least genotypically male.

I think we're in a whole different league here than magic power cables

 

[mhardy6647]

For the insanely rich other rules apply.

That's a big 10-4 (as we used to say back in the CB era of the 1970s).

 

[Spkrdctr]

And a college age cutie under each arm.
I'll always remember George Burns after Gracie died.
He knew how to enjoy life.
YUMMM

Sal I was thinking it is time for us to get some trophy wives.....in fact I will take two.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Guys, I have to confess. I flaunt my wealth all the time. Now that I am retired, I flaunt it around the poorer working class individuals. I mean I do it on purpose just to show them how much money I have. For example, when I go to Wendys, I will order a cheeseburger and I upgrade it with the more expensive "extra cheese" option. This lets the other lowlifes in the line know that I have money AND I'm not afraid to spend it. Like upgrading from a regular chili to a large chili. Everyone in the line behind me knows, that guy is going all out. I do this kind of stuff all the time. Like going to McDonalds and getting two breakfast biscuits instead of one. I know others are wishing they could too.

The downside of flaunting my wealth is that my doctors are trying to get me banned from eating for six months. They (numerous docs) all agree that a six month fast would be the best thing for my health. So, flaunting your wealth can be hazardous to your health!

 

[DMill]

I thought it was McIntosh owners they wanted to look down on.

I have no idea. Not a watch connoisseur myself. Wore an electronic Seiko for 32 years because it was tough, waterproof and kept excellent time. Now and again wear a Citizen Eco-drive for the same reasons, and it is a bit more stylish than my Seiko. Otherwise watches aren't important to me. Not denigrating those who are watch connoisseurs, but they are much like turntable owners. Fascinated by various ways of improving something hopelessly anachronistic from a performance stand point that can never get in the ballpark of accuracy of cheap modern alternatives no matter how much you spend.

I understand people like classic car collectors a little bit more. Those devices offer an experience unlike modern devices even if less good and overly expensive. A watch to my way of thinking doesn't do that other than the experience of having to "set the time" every so often. But most people have some niche hobbies they enjoy that go beyond simple functionality.

Never liked the watch comparison. I don’t know anyone with an expensive watch who will say it’s better at telling time than an Apple Watch. People with expensive turntables claim it’s superior. I don’t care how people spend their money. Just don’t make claims you can’t back up.

 

[krott5333]

I saw three of these parked outside the local Starbucks this morning, which tells me only one thing. There's too many self-Indulgent wieners in this city with too much bloody money! Now, if I was driving a 1967 275 GTB four-cam...

Champagne would fall from the heavens. Doors would open. Velvet ropes would part.

 

[curiouspeter]

I don't think I agree, FWIW... do you really think a guy* who buys, say, one of these, cares about anything but (umm...) style -- and bragging rights?

EDIT: or one, or two (or more?!) of these...

I (still) think the case of trophy watches is the best analog analogy. A multi-hundred thousand dollar Swiss-made watch keeps measurably and demonstrably worse time than a $15 Casio. I don't think accuracy is a prime driver for the market for the former.
____________
* Pretty sure most of the market is at least genotypically male.

The Momentum integrated amp looks like an espresso machine. I like the steampunk look though. It would be nice to match that with some steampunk speakers. What are the choices?

 

[curiouspeter]

I thought it was McIntosh owners they wanted to look down on.

Well, the RR Phantom owners can look down on Mercedes S-Class folks.

Both won't even be bothered to look at Cadillac owners.

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

However, few, fewer than a normal amount of people you speak about are stupid. You might say even smart people do stupid things, but the people aren't stupid. They also are influenced by other people. Once you are into the tube thing or the LP thing plenty of others you know (who also aren't stupid) are along on the same ride of sensation. So while there are plenty of absurdities involved there is more to it than that. It is no more absurd than upgraded from a DAC that is already audibly transparent to one which is better measuring (which you'll in no way hear) when your original DAC could last 10 or 20 years without wearing out.

And yet when I talk to some of these people… It’s like how do you become that ignorant? On purpose? And I’m not talking about hobbyists who build their own tube amps and home-brew high efficiency speakers, or have a large LP collection going back many decades. It’s a hobby, have fun, and for some it’s the ritual of going through all the steps to listen to those LPs that add to the experience.

No, I’m talking about all the other ones who eschew even basic logic and do things like even use cable risers or Chinese trinkets for room treatments. Clearly they are ignorant on electronics, at a minimum, if not just generally irrational.

 

[Cars-N-Cans]

Guys, I have to confess. I flaunt my wealth all the time. Now that I am retired, I flaunt it around the poorer working class individuals. I mean I do it on purpose just to show them how much money I have. For example, when I go to Wendys, I will order a cheeseburger and I upgrade it with the more expensive "extra cheese" option. This lets the other lowlifes in the line know that I have money AND I'm not afraid to spend it. Like upgrading from a regular chili to a large chili. Everyone in the line behind me knows, that guy is going all out. I do this kind of stuff all the time. Like going to McDonalds and getting two breakfast biscuits instead of one. I know others are wishing they could too.

The downside of flaunting my wealth is that my doctors are trying to get me banned from eating for six months. They (numerous docs) all agree that a six month fast would be the best thing for my health. So, flaunting your wealth can be hazardous to your health!

LOL! At the rate things are going that will be flexin‘ on people pretty soon. “Mmmm my s*** got meat bruh! And I got the super size with a milkshake inside the 40 oz soda cup.”

 

[Ricardus]

No sir, that's an audiophool.
A Audiophile is a person that loves music and attempts to put together the best High Fidelity reproduction system he can afford.
One that recognizes that his system is neither a fashion statement nor a personal wealth exhibit.
But That doesn't exclude him from appreciating and owning very expensive, handsome, AND good measuring gear if he can afford it.
I'd love to have a stack of Dan D'Agostino Progression monoblocks in place of my Adcoms, unfortunately as is often the case with very high
end gear, John Atkinson hasn't found them to measure very well.
Why is it always the chicken-egg thing.???

Except unfortunately many (most?) of them are exposed to all of the BS over time and become proponents of fake science and hyperbolic claims.

 

[dorakeg]

Never liked the watch comparison. I don’t know anyone with an expensive watch who will say it’s better at telling time than an Apple Watch. People with expensive turntables claim it’s superior. I don’t care how people spend their money. Just don’t make claims you can’t back up.

Imho, it's fine to make claims as long as they don't force others to follow what they claimed... It ok to believe in something and claim it's true. But others should be free not to believe the person's claim.

 

[Sal1950]

Why would the incredibly expensive under-performing watch be a great hobby, but messing about with tube amps isn't? You cannot even say the watch is a status symbol any more than tube amps. Other than Rolex, no one whose hobby isn't watches would notice or think anything about an expensive mechanical watch.

Tube amps are even better. When I had my VTL tube monoblocks, a large number of visitors would look at them an go WOW.
And they had no knowledge or interest in HiFi.
No one ever comments on my Adcom's except a few forum members. LOL

I don't think I agree, FWIW... do you really think a guy* who buys, say, one of these, cares about anything but (umm...) style -- and bragging rights?

But My God they're beautiful. At least from a retired machinist's point of view.

Sal I was thinking it is time for us to get some trophy wives.....in fact I will take two.

If only I had the wealth to attract a couple trophy wives.

Imho, it's fine to make claims as long as they don't force others to follow what they claimed...

I have to dis-agree there. Making false claims can never have a positive outcome.
In our line of passion, I believe we have a responsibility to expose false claims and do what we can to stop the spread of infection.
See my signature.

 

[mhardy6647]

But My God they're beautiful. At least from a retired machinist's point of view.

I think they're grotesque aesthetically -- but I take your point in terms of the machining/finishing.