This assumes there is such a thing as higher end sound and a correlation between price and audible performance. I have yet to see evidence of such.
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Yes I have heard great things about the AVM 90 to the extend that I'm willing to use a MiniDSP to fix any dips and flatten it out which is a low cost option.
I don't believe that is due to the units themselves, but the settings, dsp, source contents, recording quality, etc..
Trust science, and don't get influenced by hearsay. The Marantz will sound neural/accurate, if you want it to.
If you can't do that (trust the science and ignore subjective measurements), then you really should just go for the AVM90 as it seems you believe it has that "high end sound".
Everything I have heard points to it being well worth it to put that DSP on the subs and roll with it to get outstanding sound. Should we have to do that, definitely not but if it means great sound with all those features then it sounds like it's well worth it. I know folks love ARCG for other reasons but agreed it should enhance bass not introduce dips, will it change my mind in buying the AVM 90, I don't know yet, still doing research.
I trust my ears with some level of measurements to validate. People don't like to admit it but you can see a good graph and poor sound, I know because I have heard many demo's and tweaked a Marantz as far as it would go and was not happy with it compared to other brands so I returned it, the same room, the same amplifier just the AV receiver swapped in and out, the room setup and Bowers speakers were all the same. At this point I know good sound when I hear it, I can blind test all day and point out the good the bad and the ugly. It's not too difficult when you listen to a great setup with McIntosh Amp's and Lyndorf or Trinnov you have your benchmark and if you're ears can't tell the difference then that becomes a different problem, a good recording can only do so much for a bad system. Assuming your room is setup properly we should strive for those benchmarks in our human ears as echoed here, a low cost doesn't mean poor sound, you don't have to spend 100K to get great sound. With that said what would you buy? Where do you draw your limit? If you had to draw your limit on a receiver at $7,500 what would you buy?
You and I are the same. I KNOW FOR A FACT that Marantz just isn't for me. I have tried 3 of them in my home over the years and have sold/returned because I just can't get on board with the intentional high frequency roll-off. Combine that with the built-in mid-range compensation (granted it can be turned off in the app) and to my ears, I hear a muddied and lifeless sound devoid of "sparkle" and "airiness" in movies - especially music. There are some who love this sound, but it's not for me.
Spot on, you are right. Furthermore, it's not that they like it it's just that their minds override their ears to allow an aesthetic make them feel as if they are hearing great sound, strange but that's how some folks work by convincing themselves sound is good without acknowledging the clear difference between clarity, separation and that range you can't get without the right combination of Amplification and good pre-processing. These Cheesy AKM DAC's haven't ever shown me in any implementation that they are capable of great sound or every single one is implemented improperly. Having low distortion of bad quality sound doesn't make it good, having great sound and low distortion is a must. That's my actual experience from what I have heard and seen, and I have heard many systems live. To date there is only 1 single review on Marantz's site for the AV10, I would expect more if it's such a great product.
1. Out of the box I would take Lyndorf with their Room Perfect (then my tweaks ontop of it)
2. For the best sound tweaking capabilities I would take Trinnov (But I would spend a lifetime tuning with too many options available to me)
3. For a lower cost option that has all the features and popping sound I would go Anthem AVM 90 w a MiniDSP to get that 10dB dip back where needed.
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Great sound...
-Comes from great speakers and/or speakers with subs
-Removing the influence of the room and room modes affecting the sound. Use room EQ to fix the room under 300-500hz.
-Beyond EQing the room, once you get to the level of most of these devices over 90+ SINAD they are going to be quite difficult to tell apart in the vast majority of situations.
-Please show any proof you have anyone can tell the difference between a properly implemented "Cheesy AKM Dac's" or any other in any reliable, tested way
-You are using product reviews on Marantz's site to prove or disprove it is a good sounding product? That has to be the least reliable way to determine such a thing
-I have used RoomPerfect. It is fine. I like the way it doesn't do much in the higher frequencies. Even better... a very good speaker not corrected above 500hz and the use of Dirac DLBC.
-Some Marantz products has a bit of high frequency roll off, some do not. For example the Marantz 8015 does not. Some is so slight and there is so little actually content above 15khz that I seriously doubt you could hear it in a controlled environment with actual content.
-The midrange dip is a function of Audyssey and not the hardware. You can turn it off via the mobile app or pc app.
-Purely subjective opinions on things like this make so little sense to me. Nothing wrong with anyone thinking whatever they want, just don't thing it will gain much traction (at least here). The AVM 70/90 thread on AVS has a ton of such opinions without any support other than "it sounds so good its incredible".
You seem to be describing yourself, that you heard "great sound" from certain electronic devices. That's highly subjective measurement, that may not apply to other people.
Did you know that the AVM90, that you seem to think has that "great sound" originally used (hard to find one now obviously) AKM DAC!!
ESS, AKM, TI, Cirrus Logic and other brands all have more than one DAC IC to choose from, some AKM's have better specs than ESS's and vice versa.
Anthem switched to the ESS DAC ICs only because the AKM factory fire resulted in shortage.
That's great for you, go for it! But again, you are relying on yet another subjective measurement on a product that may be the best for some, including you, but may not be for others. Good thing there are so many to choose from
I hear ya, you are right and measurements don't always translate to how that sounds to someone though, it's a nice flat response for sure and roll-off. I'm still learning I don't claim to know it all but I do know Marantz is not for me been down that road, after seeing this response I can still tell you Marantz is just not for me, even and older Onkyo PRCS-5530 preprocessor sounds much better to me, clean classic burr browns and just excellent live separation of sounds very low noise floor with clarity and not a sign of poor decay.
No the early versions were using the newest AKM's, they are using ESS Sabre now. I believe they started off with that latest AKM DAC: AKM AK4499EQ that is supposed to have the best specs of any chip, still don't like any AKM system I have heard so I still prefer the ESS DACs.
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No what?? I did say they originally used AKM dac, and I even linked the original datasheet that says it was the AK4499EQ. And I also said they had switched to ESS after the AKM factory fire. You said no, yet you repeated what I said, so funny...
I didn't see the part of the thread, that's my bad. I called Anthem a few weeks ago to confirm ESS just so I could be sure. Apparently the AK4499EQ does have the best specs but not sure what happens to the sound in all of those implementations.
On paper, the AK4499EQ has 2dB higher (better) SINAD spec than the ES9038Pro's, DNR are same for both. So, in terms of specs, I would say they are practically the same.
If you think ESS's sounds better, you should be pleased with the AVM90 that uses one of the best DAC chip found in a 19 channel AV preamp proceesor, or any AV preamp processor currently available.
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I was counting on getting great sound out of this unit after all of my tweaks, which will take some time. However, I will give you an honest assessment if it turns out that it doesn't sound as good as my current system for some reason or beat it (Hopefully) I will definitely share that information along with some measurements here so folks can learn from our experience. Appreciate all of your feedback. At first i will attempt to correct the sub issues with the built in features, if that doesn't work I'll go with the 2X4 Minidsp to do the job. I haven't even bought the unit yet so hopefully in the next few months that will happen.
Any progress? Did you finally get the AVM 90? What processor do you use currently or previously?
Anthem ADVERTISED the AV90 as having AKM DACs. Maybe a few prototypes were produced. However, when it was finally released, long after the release of the AV70, it had ESS DACs.
The AV70 on the other hand, did use AKM for a brief moment, when it was first released. Then the AKM factory fire and COVID required Anthem to switch to ESS.
Mick Seymour
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I don't think Covid had anything to do with it. The fire wiped out AKM manufacturing. Whatever, we got ostensibly better DACs in the AVM90 from the very start of sales.
Yes it was the factory fire that forces many to substitute AKM DAC chips with others such as comparable ESS chips. For the AVM90, Anthem did the right thing using the flagship ESS Sabre chip that, on paper, is very comparable to the originally planned (no one know how many sold had that chip onboard, as JRiggs alluded to, could even for their prototype only, so could be 0..). The AK4499's specs is only 1 to 2 dB better in SINAD than the ESS chips used in the current AVM90, no one can hear a difference between 124 dB and 122 dB SINAD. Their DNR specs appear to be identical.
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