Denon AVR-AH1 vs Anthem AVM 90

[jabber1066]

Looking to upgrade my Denon 3700H AVR for something with more channels and more advanced processing. I've been using separates for many years and a series of Denon AVR's as the processor. Currently working with a 7.2.4 set up (Def Tech and SVS speakers with side and rear surrounds bi-amped) and Emotiva amps. I'd like to add a set of front wide speakers and two more subs unless my wife kills me. (Well, even if she does but you only live once.) So I'm looking for my last AVR/processor unless I live longer than would probably be a good idea. I'd love to finally go with a dedicated processor at this point, but there doesn't seem to be a lot out there on those, for surround at least.

Any thoughts on just sticking with Denon (which I like a lot) and go with their top-end AVR-H1, versus the Anthem AVM-90? Read a review on the Anthem that says it doesn't process DSD, which would pretty much be a deal breaker, although I haven't been able to confirm this on their website. I have an aging but cherished collection of SACD's, and those need to be part of the plan.

Thanks guys

 

[Golfx]

Good morning. The Anthem is a pre processor not an AVR. Marantz has a new pre processor that just received a very favorable review at audioholics.

Marantz AV 10 15.4CH 8K AV Processor Bench Test Results

The Marantz AV 10 15.4CH 8K AV Processor produced excellent bench test results. This $7K AVP has bass management features no other competitor has at this price. We thoroughly test to show you how it works.

www.audioholics.com

Denon’s new AVR A1H should test well too and it is next to be tested for bench measurements.

Comparing Anthem to Denon/Marantz I always found Anthem’s user manuals very sparse whereas Denon/Marantz have every complete manuals explaining various setup options and advanced tips.

 

[peng]

Any thoughts on just sticking with Denon (which I like a lot) and go with their top-end AVR-H1, versus the Anthem AVM-90?

I assume you meant the AVR-A1H, but that is an AVR. In my opinion, it is a better value than the AVM90 because it is cheaper, have 15 built in power amps that you may have use for, and it can be used with Dirac Live if you pay for the license. The AVM90 uses better DAC chips but the slightly better specs of those chips will most likely not translate into audibly better sound quality because the specs of the chips in the Denon are already in the SOTA reference class.

Read a review on the Anthem that says it doesn't process DSD, which would pretty much be a deal breaker, although I haven't been able to confirm this on their website. I have an aging but cherished collection of SACD's, and those need to be part of the plan.

Thanks guys

I don't know your source of that information, but it is definitely false, of course the AVM90, and the AVM70 can process DSD. You can email Anthem and they will tell you the same. Forum posters (including me) do make mistakes from time to time.

 

[jabber1066]

I assume you meant the AVR-A1H, but that is an AVR. In my opinion, it is a better value than the AVM90 because it is cheaper, have 15 built in power amps that you may have use for, and it can be used with Dirac Live if you pay for the license. The AVM90 uses better DAC chips but the slightly better specs of those chips will most likely not translate into audibly better sound quality because the specs of the chips in the Denon are already in the SOTA reference class.

I don't know your source of that information, but it is definitely false, of course the AVM90, and the AVM70 can process DSD. You can email Anthem and they will tell you the same. Forum posters (including me) do make mistakes from time to time.

Thanks guys, really appreciate the input. Actually I did get a reply today from Anthem on the DSD question - and you're right, the tech advisor there assured me that DSD was supported. And yes, I was comparing a Denon AVR with the Anthem pre-pro, and was somewhat intrigued by the specs on the latter's DAC. Peng, your comment was so on-point though, and a reminder that we don't listen to specs, we listen to sound. I've been a Denon guy for 20+ years, and am strongly leaning towards the AVR-A1H at this point. Looking forward to seeing some test results on that.

 

[peng]

Thanks guys, really appreciate the input. Actually I did get a reply today from Anthem on the DSD question - and you're right, the tech advisor there assured me that DSD was supported. And yes, I was comparing a Denon AVR with the Anthem pre-pro, and was somewhat intrigued by the specs on the latter's DAC. Peng, your comment was so on-point though, and a reminder that we don't listen to specs, we listen to sound. I've been a Denon guy for 20+ years, and am strongly leaning towards the AVR-A1H at this point. Looking forward to seeing some test results on that.

@Matthew J Poes , are you watching? I think many of us are looking forward to seeing the test results on your review/measurements of the Denon AVR-A1H, expected to be published on Audioholics.com if I understood right.

 

[RF Air]

@Matthew J Poes , are you watching? I think many of us are looking forward to seeing the test results on your review/measurements of the Denon AVR-A1H, expected to be published on Audioholics.com if I understood right.

Hi @peng ,

I too would like too see the AVR-A1H review. I expect that Denon may have a winner if the results are in line with the performance the AVR-X4800H achieved.

 

[peng]

Hi @peng ,

I too would like too see the AVR-A1H review. I expect that Denon may have a winner if the results are in line with the performance the AVR-X4800H achieved.

So far we have not heard back from Gene and Matthew. So, may be Denon did not send them one to test, since they have already sent them the AV10 and Amp10. May be we should ask them to send ASR the A1H. Are there any ASR members who has contact info for the power that be at Denon haha?

 

[RF Air]

Hi @peng ,

Judging from what Amir shared with me, there has been some shuffling of staff within the Denon ranks due to the Corporate acquisition. It was part of the cause for the delay in verification of the test results because the regular contact for Amir was no longer available, or had different responsibilities and unable to respond.

I thought about purchasing the A1H, but just can't justify ownership with all of the Amplifier Channels that would be sitting idle. Still; something attracts me to ownership...

 

[jonfitch]

Hi @peng ,

Judging from what Amir shared with me, there has been some shuffling of staff within the Denon ranks due to the Corporate acquisition. It was part of the cause for the delay in verification of the test results because the regular contact for Amir was no longer available, or had different responsibilities and unable to respond.

I thought about purchasing the A1H, but just can't justify ownership with all of the Amplifier Channels that would be sitting idle. Still; something attracts me to ownership...

Just think you won't have to break your back every time you have to move it just to add another input

To me 50lbs is the max I can deal with in a receiver. 70+lbs is not just hard on furniture but imagine if you have to move, it's basically a brick with a crazy amount of inertia. Too easy to damage/drop.

 

[Descartes]

Just think you won't have to break your back every time you have to move it just to add another input

To me 50lbs is the max I can deal with in a receiver. 70+lbs is not just hard on furniture but imagine if you have to move, it's basically a brick with a crazy amount of inertia. Too easy to damage/drop.

And hurting your back!

 

[hwest]

Good morning. The Anthem is a pre processor not an AVR. Marantz has a new pre processor that just received a very favorable review at audioholics.

Marantz AV 10 15.4CH 8K AV Processor Bench Test Results

The Marantz AV 10 15.4CH 8K AV Processor produced excellent bench test results. This $7K AVP has bass management features no other competitor has at this price. We thoroughly test to show you how it works.

www.audioholics.com

Denon’s new AVR A1H should test well too and it is next to be tested for bench measurements.

Comparing Anthem to Denon/Marantz I always found Anthem’s user manuals very sparse whereas Denon/Marantz have every complete manuals explaining various setup options and advanced tips.

I care about the actual sound when we start referencing manuals it just doesn't mean much to me. Marantz and Denon to me just produce mediocre sound at best with everything mashed together. Throw all the measurements you want I have heard them in many scenarios and they just don't have 'IT'.

 

[Ssmokeyy]

Avm 90 best pre /pro under 10k arcam/nad/audiocontrol after than integra drx 8.4 than marantz/denon.

 

[markrubin]

I have the Anthem AVM90 and love it: I have tried several other processors including Arcam, Audiocontrol, Marantz AV10 and 8805, NAD M17, Krell Foundation 4k, and more. The Anthem has some issues but overall still my fav for any processor under $10k

 

[peng]

I care about the actual sound when we start referencing manuals it just doesn't mean much to me. Marantz and Denon to me just produce mediocre sound at best with everything mashed together. Throw all the measurements you want I have heard them in many scenarios and they just don't have 'IT'.

I am glad I am not (edited, meant to say not) facing such a decision. Regardless, it would be tough to decide, because if your "actual sound", means perceived sound quality in the typical kind of auditioning sessions in dealers demo room or even in your own room can be so subjective that it probably means very little in the end. It is very difficult to compare two features rich preamp processors even if you have the time and hardware to do apples to apple comparison as there will be so many things/ways to compare, including mono, stereo, digital inputs vs analog inputs, HDMI vs optical etc., also with and without RC used, music vs movies in DDTHD, DTS-HDMA, DD Atmos, DTS-X etc... That's why I would based on decision on features, specs, measurements, and price. So my choice would be between the AVM90 and the AV10. As an example, I would scored them by items listed (but not limited to) below:

- Specs on paper (I bet the AVM90 would win based on the better DAC IC, assuming the preamp section would be better too, though there is no info published by Anthem).
- Features, the AV10 wins, the only area I would say the AVM won, is the availability of virtual inputs, if done right, it offers more flexibility than D+M's input assign features.
- Bench test measurements, have to give it to the AV10 because in this case detailed test results are available from both the manufacturer and 3rd party reviewer (Audioholics).
- RC, ARCG vs Audysssey+Editor app or MultEQ X, based on measurements with REW/U-mik mic, Audyssey did a better job for me but ARCG came close after spending hours tweaking with the app, though if I were to do it again it should take me less than two hours, including checking with REW after each tweaks.
- RC, ARCG vs Dirac Live, I would say the AV10 definitely wins on this, but it will cost you $800 to buy the full DLBC license.

If I have $8,500 to spend right now, it would be an easy decision, purely based on objective facts and data. If based on subjective measurements, aka trust your ears, then all bets are off because opinions will be all over the map, even if you can ask 1,000 users of the AV10, AVM90, Arcam, Integra, Storm audio, even Trinnov's, the results would be very interesting but not necessarily meaningful in the end.

 

[Ssmokeyy]

I forgot also put jbl on that list. If money doesn't matter than trinnov wins everytime. Also u have to pay more to unlock all the options on all denons/marantz. Arc comes free with all anthem gear.

 

[walt99]

You might also throw the Lyngdorf MP-40 or MP-60 in the mix, I’m very much enjoying my MP40.

 

[ban25]

I am glad I am facing such a decision. Regardless, it would be tough to decide, because if your "actual sound", means perceived sound quality in the typical kind of auditioning sessions in dealers demo room or even in your own room can be so subjective that it probably means very little in the end. It is very difficult to compare two features rich preamp processors even if you have the time and hardware to do apples to apple comparison as there will be so many things/ways to compare, including mono, stereo, digital inputs vs analog inputs, HDMI vs optical etc., also with and without RC used, music vs movies in DDTHD, DTS-HDMA, DD Atmos, DTS-X etc... That's why I would based on decision on features, specs, measurements, and price. So my choice would be between the AVM90 and the AV10. As an example, I would scored them by items listed (but not limited to) below:

- Specs on paper (I bet the AVM90 would win based on the better DAC IC, assuming the preamp section would be better too, though there is no info published by Anthem).
- Features, the AV10 wins, the only area I would say the AVM won, is the availability of virtual inputs, if done right, it offers more flexibility than D+M's input assign features.
- Bench test measurements, have to give it to the AV10 because in this case detailed test results are available from both the manufacturer and 3rd party reviewer (Audioholics).
- RC, ARCG vs Audysssey+Editor app or MultEQ X, based on measurements with REW/U-mik mic, Audyssey did a better job for me but ARCG came close after spending hours tweaking with the app, though if I were to do it again it should take me less than two hours, including checking with REW after each tweaks.
- RC, ARCG vs Dirac Live, I would say the AV10 definitely wins on this, but it will cost you $800 to buy the full DLBC license.

If I have $8,500 to spend right now, it would be an easy decision, purely based on objective facts and data. If based on subjective measurements, aka trust your ears, then all bets are off because opinions will be all over the map, even if you can ask 1,000 users of the AV10, AVM90, Arcam, Integra, Storm audio, even Trinnov's, the results would be very interesting but not necessarily meaningful in the end.

BTW Gene has just posted his AMP10 review:

Marantz AMP 10 200 Watt x 16CH Amplifier Bench Test Results

The Marantz AMP 10 is a 200 watt x 16CH amplifier utilizing the ICE Edge Class D topology with a custom built SMPS power supply. I put the AMP 10 through exhaustive bench tests to gauge its performance.

www.audioholics.com

 

[peng]

I am not interested in a 16 channel 200 WPC power amp such as the amp10. I assume some actually have the need, but some probably just want to have one regardless.

 

[Doodski]

The toroid transformer is apparently very small for 16 channels of amplification. Class D must be pretty effective for such a transformer.

 

[ban25]

The toroid transformer is apparently very small for 16 channels of amplification. Class D must be pretty effective for such a transformer.

As the review states, the transformer is only there to power the control circuitry. Each Class D amplifier blade has its own SMPS which drives two channels. This separation is likely why there is no evidence of 60 Hz AC noise in the frequency sweep.