Denon AVR-AH1 vs Anthem AVM 90

[Doodski]

As the review states, the transformer is only there to power the control circuitry. Each Class D amplifier blade has its own SMPS which drives two channels. This separation is likely why there is no evidence of 60 Hz AC noise in the frequency sweep.

O thanks for the heads up! I never read or watched the review. So I was flying blind I suppose.

 

[hwest]

I have the Anthem AVM90 and love it: I have tried several other processors including Arcam, Audiocontrol, Marantz AV10 and 8805, NAD M17, Krell Foundation 4k, and more. The Anthem has some issues but overall still my fav for any processor under $10k

Good to hear, it's #1 on my list at the moment.

 

[Descartes]

Still no reviews thee we one box solution is really tempting!

 

[peng]

Still no reviews thee we one box solution is really tempting!

Also, one box or not, the advantage of the A1H is that it can have DLBC, at a price, or XT32 if not. The AVM90 is ARCG only, that is good too for those who know how to tweak The AVM90 will most likely do better in bench measurements because of the better ESS DAC IC, though the A1H's >100 dB SINAD is excellent already. Even if the AVM90 can get pass 105 dB, I doubt it would "sound better" except in sighted listening tests.

 

[Ssmokeyy]

Did every one forget what happen with the first gen hdmi 2.1. Think there won't be a problem with there first gen class d amps.

 

[ban25]

Did every one forget what happen with the first gen hdmi 2.1. Think there won't be a problem with there first gen class d amps.

Denon A1H is Class AB. Marantz AMP10 is Class D, based on existing Ice Power designs.

 

[chelgrian]

Denon A1H is Class AB. Marantz AMP10 is Class D, based on existing Ice Power designs.

Also the HDMI issue affected everyone because everyone used the same problematic Panasonic chipset.

 

[hwest]

Also, one box or not, the advantage of the A1H is that it can have DLBC, at a price, or XT32 if not. The AVM90 is ARCG only, that is good too for those who know how to tweak The AVM90 will most likely do better in bench measurements because of the better ESS DAC IC, though the A1H's >100 dB SINAD is excellent already. Even if the AVM90 can get pass 105 dB, I doubt it would "sound better" except in sighted listening tests.

The AH1 is an all in one AMP and Processor and is already at a disadvantage with no main speaker XLR outputs other than the Sub XLR's. It's already at a dissadvantage just by this alone. I'm sure it sounds good but it's lacking some things to even compete.

 

[peng]

The AH1 is an all in one AMP and Processor and is already at a disadvantage with no main speaker XLR outputs other than the Sub XLR's. It's already at a dissadvantage just by this alone. I'm sure it sounds good but it's lacking some things to even compete.

You can use the rca subouts and then reassign the 4 xlr subouts to the lcr channels preouts for use with an external amp. Regardless, xlrs don't always do better unless the interconnects are longer than a few meters.

 

[hwest]

You can use the rca subouts and then reassign the 4 xlr subouts to the lcr channels preouts for use with an external amp. Regardless, xlrs don't always do better unless the interconnects are longer than a few meters.

I'm not sure how you can make that claim as they are grounded and far less susceptible to noise, they are just a a better cable. The Anthem comes with all balanced for all channels.

 

[peng]

I'm not sure how you can make that claim as they are grounded and far less susceptible to noise, they are just a a better cable. The Anthem comes with all balanced for all channels

What claim? My comments are based on specs. You can read about the 4 sub xlr connections from the Masimo video and Audioholics, or read the manual. And on performance, in many reviews SINAD did not always do better, worse on some occasions, and when they did do better, most of the time, the differences were 2 to a few dB. As for grounding, that is not what it is about, but about noise cancellations inherent in balanced configurations, that could be significant in cases where interconnects are long, but not so much for the typical 2 to 3 meter lengths. Of course on all else being equal basis, xlrs should perform better in terms of measured SINAD. I am just cautioning that they are not always necessarly. They also offer 2x the voltage so with some amps it could be an advantage too and I am sure you know that already.

Anthem's are all xlr for their AVPs, not AVR/AVC. The AVR-A1H is an AVR, and it is rare for AVRs to provide 3 or 4 XLRs. The Yamaha flagship offers only 2 XLR outputs.

 

[hwest]

I

What claim? My comments are based on spec. You can read about the 4 sub xlr connections from the Masimo video and Audioholics, or read the manual. And on performance, in many reviews SINAD did not always do better, worse on some occasions, and when they did do better, most of the time, the differences ware 2 to a few dB. As for grounding, that is not what it is about, but about noise cancellations inherent in balanced configurations, that could be significant in cases where interconnects are long, but not so much for the typical 2 to 3 meter lengths. Of course on all else being equal basis, xlrs should perform better in terms of measured SINAD. I am just cautioning that they are not always necessary. They also offer 2x the voltage so with some amps it could be an advantage too and I am sure you know that already.

Anthem's are all xlr for their AVPs, not AVR/AVC. The AVR-A1H is an AVR, and it is rare for AVRs to provide 3 or 4 XLRs. The Yamaha flagship offers only 2 XLR outputs.

I'm not a guy to go looking for what others like and I have personally seen that great measurements don't always equate to great sound, it just doesn't. When I hear the kind of forward sound, separation of sound vs some of the big brands that mash sound together more so than others, what you see in measurements doesn't quite reveal that portion of what you hear. I guess for me I can setup a Denon or Marantz against an Integra receiver and I can hear a very clear distinction between how Integra let's say handles that presence that sounds much more alive than those mainstream generic 'sell a bunch of units to people at a huge price brands'. You may disagree but if you spend a ton of time listening critically it's hard not to come to that conclusion, it's just my honest assessment.

 

[peng]

I

I'm not a guy to go looking for what others like and I have personally seen that great measurements don't always equate to great sound, it just doesn't. When I hear the kind of forward sound, separation of sound vs some of the big brands that mash sound together more so than others, what you see in measurements doesn't quite reveal that portion of what you hear. I guess for me I can setup a Denon or Marantz against an Integra receiver and I can hear a very clear distinction between how Integra let's say handles that presence that sounds much more alive than those mainstream generic 'sell a bunch of units to people at a huge price brands'. You may disagree but if you spend a ton of time listening critically it's hard not to come to that conclusion, it's just my honest assessment.

I don't disagree, but perceieved sound quality measured subjectively is a different topic altogether than your earlier point on the lack of xlr on the A1H. I was just pointing out you could use the sub xlrs for other channels such as left, center, and right and use rcas for the subs. Anyway I don't have D+Ms any more.

 

[Jack B]

I don't disagree, but perceieved sound quality measured subjectively is a different topic altogether than your earlier point on the lack of xlr on the A1H. I was just pointing out you could use the sub xlrs for other channels such as left, center, and right and use rcas for the subs. Anyway I don't have D+Ms any more.

Most of us (absent controls like double-blind testing, level matching, etc) will hear what we want to hear. Nobody can achieve objective judgement through sheer force of will; we are all fallible despite our protestations to the contrary. Shiny things...

 

[quattro98]

As the review states, the transformer is only there to power the control circuitry. Each Class D amplifier blade has its own SMPS which drives two channels. This separation is likely why there is no evidence of 60 Hz AC noise in the frequency sweep.

I think there is one SMPS shared across the 8 stereo amplifiers. They are connected by bus bars.

 

[ban25]

I think there is one SMPS shared across the 8 stereo amplifiers. They are connected by bus bars.

Yep, you're right, it is a single SMPS powering the amplifiers per Audioholics review.

 

[quattro98]

Any thoughts on the output impedance of the ICEPower 400 A2 as used in the Marantz Amp 10? Is there any practical consequence of this compared to Hypex or Purifi?

Datasheet

 

[peng]

Any thoughts on the output impedance of the ICEPower 400 A2 as used in the Marantz Amp 10? Is there any practical consequence of this compared to Hypex or Purifi?

Datasheet

Not as good(iirc), but more than good enough. I know one member would disagree but..

 

[quattro98]

Not as good(iirc), but more than good enough. I know one member would disagree but..

Thanks. I don't know what matters in practical terms vs is merely a numerical difference. Here's what I've seen from eyeballing the spec sheets:

Module	Output impedance 20 Hz	Output impedance 20 kHz	Notes
ICEPower 400 A2	8 mΩ	> 40 mΩ
Hypex NCx500	180 µΩ	2 mΩ
Purifi 1ET400	50 µΩ	0.5-0.6 mΩ

Seems like even at the highest value in this table, the effect on output would be minimal.

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[hwest]

Looking to upgrade my Denon 3700H AVR for something with more channels and more advanced processing. I've been using separates for many years and a series of Denon AVR's as the processor. Currently working with a 7.2.4 set up (Def Tech and SVS speakers with side and rear surrounds bi-amped) and Emotiva amps. I'd like to add a set of front wide speakers and two more subs unless my wife kills me. (Well, even if she does but you only live once.) So I'm looking for my last AVR/processor unless I live longer than would probably be a good idea. I'd love to finally go with a dedicated processor at this point, but there doesn't seem to be a lot out there on those, for surround at least.

Any thoughts on just sticking with Denon (which I like a lot) and go with their top-end AVR-H1, versus the Anthem AVM-90? Read a review on the Anthem that says it doesn't process DSD, which would pretty much be a deal breaker, although I haven't been able to confirm this on their website. I have an aging but cherished collection of SACD's, and those need to be part of the plan.

Thanks guys

I have to say it's my opinion that the AVM 90 is in a different class than the highest end Denon or Marantz after hearing all of them.