7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 IEM Review

[rdo]

Just made an account to comment on this as well. I received mine yesterday and I have the same issue. The bass is really weak while the higher frequencies sound to prominent. I've tried with all of the included tips as well as some much broader ones I had at home that definitely do close the ear channel properly. I think the best experience so far is with the blue tips included here, however it still sounds "flat" compared to my prior in-ear headphones I've used for 13+ years now (Philips SHE8500), which were ironically even more budget and yet had a far superior sound.

There is one thing I've noticed: when I put both of my hands over the ears, the bass increases quite noticeably. So is it a sound isolation issue? But it cannot be the tips. I've tried quite a few other, larger ones I've had at home. So is it the low insertion depth as some pointed out which makes these ones so dependent on anatomy?

Well, anyway, I've ordered the Zero Red and see if those do a better job for me. But yeah, the Zero:2s turned out worthless for my ears it seems. Really don't enjoy the thin sound. Probably I'll send them back to Amazon or something.

I have very similar experience with this headphones. I finally checked around 40 tips untill i found a pair that made the sound acceptable. Still not better than some old IEMs that i have. So easier is just to return the IEM and search for other that fits you better.

But what i've learned is that tips have far more influence that i thought and sadly that i can't predict the tip effect based on shape, size or material. Also the IEM shape, seal and comfort are not less important than the measured FR

 

[Jimbob54]

I have very similar experience with this headphones. I finally checked around 40 tips untill i found a pair that made the sound acceptable. Still not better than some old IEMs that i have. So easier is just to return the IEM and search for other that fits you better.

But what i've learned is that tips have far more influence that i thought and sadly that i can't predict the tip effect based on shape, size or material. Also the IEM shape, seal and comfort are not less important than the measured FR

I would go so far as to say that if constant good seal is not there, the measured FR is pretty irrelevant to that user as that wont be what they are getting. And if they arent comfortable for the user's use case it doesnt matter how good the seal is or the FR as they wont want to wear them. Only after both of those factors are sorted is it even worth worrying about the impact of the tips on the FR. I suppose absent of a personal measuring rig, everyone should try and get comfort and seal with the stock tips used to measure (at least the same material and nozzle size if not flange size).

 

[InfiniteJester]

I would go so far as to say that if constant good seal is not there, the measured FR is pretty irrelevant to that user as that wont be what they are getting. And if they arent comfortable for the user's use case it doesnt matter how good the seal is or the FR as they wont want to wear them. Only after both of those factors are sorted is it even worth worrying about the impact of the tips on the FR. I suppose absent of a personal measuring rig, everyone should try and get comfort and seal with the stock tips used to measure (at least the same material and nozzle size if not flange size).

The thing is that I believe that I get a good seal, because the bass is very strong (too much for me), but I still have weird issues with these IEMs.

I have been experimenting with the ∆ 10dB and the JM-1 targets and the congestion and muddiness/veilness go away. They improve the soundstage a fair amount and the sound is no longer as distant, but the harshness while listening to metal is still as bad, or even worse.

Preamp: -2.3 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 20 Hz Gain -1.6 dB Q 1.400
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 31 Hz Gain 0.6 dB Q 1.300
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 33 Hz Gain -6.4 dB Q 0.500
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 37 Hz Gain 0.5 dB Q 2.000
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 470 Hz Gain 2.5 dB Q 0.700
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 1400 Hz Gain -1.2 dB Q 1.200
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 2900 Hz Gain 2.1 dB Q 2.000
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 6000 Hz Gain 3.2 dB Q 2.000
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 8200 Hz Gain -7.5 dB Q 2.000
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 10000 Hz Gain 6.8 dB Q 2.000
Filter 11: ON PK Fc 12000 Hz Gain -3.1 dB Q 2.000

At any rate, I still prefer this profile over their custom one.

This is how many user profiles I have tried (I also tried every single one that was included at the app):

It can be seen how hard I tried to make them work. And this doesn't even count how many differest tips I have used.

 

[Somafunk]

A question for those who return these iem's ?, why don't you sell them on and take a small hit on £/$ as when they are sent back to the likes of Amazon, being such a low cost/value item, more than likely the iem's merely get dumped rather than repackaged/resold due to sanitary concerns and the cost of repacking.

It's an utter waste of resources (I could go on a rant regarding amazon and how they deal with with returns but that's another thread regarding sustainability)

 

[InfiniteJester]

A question for those who return these iem's ?, why don't you sell them on and take a small hit on £/$ as when they are sent back to the likes of Amazon, being such a low cost/value item, more than likely the iem's merely get dumped rather than repackaged/resold due to sanitary concerns and the cost of repacking.

It's an utter waste of resources (I could go on a rant regarding amazon and how they deal with with returns but that's another thread regarding sustainability)

Agree.

I went partially mad with this book and it bothers me a lot to think about stuff being dumped this way.

That is without even considering the impact to the environment. Which is something I try my best to not get obsessed with after almost dying of starvation in the past due to my concerns with animal cruelty and agrarian exploitation.

 

[Jimbob54]

The thing is that I believe that I get a good seal, because the bass is very strong (too much for me), but I still have weird issues with these IEMs.

I have been experimenting with the ∆ 10dB and the JM-1 targets and the congestion and muddiness/veilness go away. They improve the soundstage a fair amount and the sound is no longer as distant, but the harshness while listening to metal is still as bad, or even worse.

Preamp: -2.3 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 20 Hz Gain -1.6 dB Q 1.400
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 31 Hz Gain 0.6 dB Q 1.300
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 33 Hz Gain -6.4 dB Q 0.500
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 37 Hz Gain 0.5 dB Q 2.000
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 470 Hz Gain 2.5 dB Q 0.700
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 1400 Hz Gain -1.2 dB Q 1.200
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 2900 Hz Gain 2.1 dB Q 2.000
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 6000 Hz Gain 3.2 dB Q 2.000
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 8200 Hz Gain -7.5 dB Q 2.000
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 10000 Hz Gain 6.8 dB Q 2.000
Filter 11: ON PK Fc 12000 Hz Gain -3.1 dB Q 2.000

At any rate, I still prefer this profile over their custom one.

This is how many user profiles I have tried (I also tried every single one that was included at the app):

View attachment 356530

It can be seen how hard I tried to make them work. And this doesn't even count how many differest tips I have used.

Agreed. That's a different thing in play than seal or comfort. Can't say I've used mine enough or am a good enough listener to pull out such details but these obviously don't respond well to the anatomy or preferences of some users

 

[Batenxx]

Update on my situation. Just now my Truthear Zero Red arrived and no matter which tips I use, the bass is SIGNIFICANTLY more pronounced. It's like day and night. Especially when I use my own tips from my old in-ear headphones. So ultimately this begs the question: is it really anatomical reasons why the Zero:2s sound so thin for me.

 

[markanini]

Update on my situation. Just now my Truthear Zero Red arrived and no matter which tips I use, the bass is SIGNIFICANTLY more pronounced. It's like day and night. Especially when I use my own tips from my old in-ear headphones. So ultimately this begs the question: is it really anatomical reasons why the Zero:2s sound so thin for me.

What are you plugging your Reds into?

 

[Batenxx]

What are you plugging your Reds into?

My laptop via the normal 3.5mm plug.

 

[markanini]

My laptop via the normal 3.5mm plug.

That's likely boosting the bass beyond what's intended by the manufacturers. Most will advise using a USBC to 3.5mm dongle in your situation, at least if you are looking to make an apples to apple comparison.

See the impedance graph posted here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ruthear-x-crinacle-zero-red-iem-review.44865/

 

[Batenxx]

That's likely boosting the bass beyond what's intended by the manufacturers. Most will advise using a USBC to 3.5mm dongle in your situation, at least if you are looking to make an apples to apple comparison.

See the impedance graph posted here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ruthear-x-crinacle-zero-red-iem-review.44865/

But I used the same with the Zero:2. Same laptop (obviously) and also using the 3.5mm plug. With the Zero:2 the sound was flat and lacked bass, while the Zero Red has really nice bass. So if the laptop boosts the Zero Red's bass, why doesn't the same happen with the Zero:2. It makes no sense.

 

[staticV3]

But I used the same with the Zero:2. Same laptop (obviously) and also using the 3.5mm plug. With the Zero:2 the sound was flat and lacked bass. Not so much with the Zero Red. So if the laptop boosts the Zero Red's bass, why doesn't the same happen with the Zero:2. It makes no sense.

Sure it does.

The Zero Red's impedance rises into the bass, resulting in bass boost with Amps that have high output impedance.
The Zero 2 doesn't have that, so no bass boost occurrs.


It makes no sense only if you don't know Ohm's law.

 

[mc.god]

But I used the same with the Zero:2. Same laptop (obviously) and also using the 3.5mm plug. With the Zero:2 the sound was flat and lacked bass, while the Zero Red has really nice bass. So if the laptop boosts the Zero Red's bass, why doesn't the same happen with the Zero:2. It makes no sense.

Zero 2 doesn't change it's FR depending on output impedance of source while Zero:Red does, as @staticV3 already explained.
Anyway Zero 2 with proper seal should still have more bass than Zero:RED even at 75 Ohm output impedance:

So unless your laptop has tremendously high output impedance, the difference you perceive is most likely 100% due to improper fitting of the Zero 2 to your ears.

If you like Zero:RED as it is now, enjoy them and it's all, otherwise try a good budget dongle with known low impedance.

 

[Batenxx]

Sure it does.

The Zero Red's impedance rises into the bass, resulting in bass boost with Amps that have high output impedance.
The Zero 2 doesn't have that, so no bass boost occurrs.
View attachment 356720 View attachment 356721

It makes no sense only if you don't know Ohm's law.

I've just tried it with my smartphone and a tablet. Do those also have high output impedance? It sounds exactly like on my laptop. I will try other devices in the next few days, like an old mp3 player I have lying around in some drawer. But your explanation sounds reasonable and logical. Ultimately I can live with either explanation, whether it's the erogonomic differences which make the Zero Reds sound superior and richer or this bass boost.

But it makes me wonder: why did the manufacturer build it this way? I've had many in ear headphones over the last 13 years (though no IEMs) and all of them had this rich bass. So I was quite taken aback when the Zero:2s sounded so thin. This begs the question: is the lack of bass boost unique to the Zero:2s when it comes to IEMs or is it the other way around?

 

[staticV3]

I've just tried it with my smartphone and a tablet. Do those also have high output impedance?

Depends on which smartphone and which tablet.
Also most of these haven't been measured, so there's no info no output impedance.

is the lack of bass boost unique to the Zero:2s when it comes to IEMs or is it the other way around?

The Zero Red is an exception in how it reacts to high output impedance.

You can find the impedance response of many different IEMs here and here.

 

[Batenxx]

Anyway Zero 2 with proper seal should still have more bass than Zero:RED even at 75 Ohm output impedance:

The seal was 100% airtight. So much that I caused a vacuum (as explained in my other post). Yet the bass was not nearly as heavy as with the Zero Reds. I've also tried other devices with the Zero Reds, like a smartphone or tablet. The bass is equally strong, so it's not my Laptop that causes this.

 

[mikehoopes]

It may be the insertion depth. I'm not an expert at all, quite the opposite, in fact, but they do have the shortest nozzles out of my whole collection and they present issues I haven't had with any other set.

I cannot endure them when listening to metal, for example, they sound so harsh and, simultaneously, bloated and distant, that I cannot stand a single song. And that is something that you wouldn't expect at all after watching the frequency response. I tuned my other IEMs to the same target as the Zero:2, and I don't find them harsh at all. So it must be some kind of resonance in my ear canal due to the short nozzle and not a product of the FR on itself. Either that or there is a lot of unit variation, and my set has a different response, which I doubt.

I have read about several people having the same issue, so I think that it is not as incredibly uncommon as some would say.

Hard to think that a 19,66€ IEM could be so useless. I wanted to use them while traveling, because I'm not comfortable doing so with my more expensive IEMs, but they are not even worth it for that.

I'm contemplating buying either the EW200s or the Ziigaat NUOs for traveling. I won't buy another 7Hz after this experience. Apparently, the NUOs have a deeper fit and much better soundstage at roughly the same price.

Insertion depth was an issue for me and quite few others with the FiiO FH5, to the point where I bought some small o-rings from McMaster-Carr to put on the nozzle to help extend the insertion depth. The depth issue was mostly caused by interference of the shell with my crus helix, if memory serves. This nozzle may be too short for that kind of solution, though.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...rmature-drivers.882444/page-104#post-14695561

 

[markanini]

Insertion depth was an issue for me and quite few others with the FiiO FH5, to the point where I bought some small o-rings from McMaster-Carr to put on the nozzle to help extend the insertion depth. The depth issue was mostly caused by interference of the shell with my crus helix, if memory serves. This nozzle may be too short for that kind of solution, though.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fii...rmature-drivers.882444/page-104#post-14695561

You can also source o-rings from kits used for damping PC keyboards https://amazon.com/dp/B01N75JL0F

 

[mikehoopes]

You can also source o-rings from kits used for damping PC keyboards https://amazon.com/dp/B01N75JL0F

Nice! Silicone, 5.08 mm ID, 120 pieces for $7; a much better deal.

 

[mc.god]

The seal was 100% airtight. So much that I caused a vacuum (as explained in my other post). Yet the bass was not nearly as heavy as with the Zero Reds. I've also tried other devices with the Zero Reds, like a smartphone or tablet. The bass is equally strong, so it's not my Laptop that causes this.

We can only make assumptions based on graphs, and graphs say that with proper seal in most cases Zero 2 should sound even fuller than Zero:RED and in no way thin. We can't know what's going on between Zero 2 shape and your ears, but if you are 100% certain of a perfect seal maybe some strange resonance with you ear canals.
Well, unless you got a counterfeit Zero 2.