75 years of JBL: 75 years of Loud + Clear!

[Pulkass]

Even today speakers are largely a personal choice, but back then I would submit that loudspeakers had even more character, aka: were not transparent. Therefore the speakers that any one individual might have picked over a pair of L100s would have been dependent on what the listener was looking for.

The JBL 4310, which was the first version of the monitor that was to become the L100 was designed with a very forward midrange to mimic the sound of the Altec 604E monitors that were the de facto industry standard in the US. The goal was not the most accurate speaker, or the speaker with the most extended range, and certainly the polar response was not really considered. This gave the L100 an unusual and characteristic sound.

In no particular order here is a list of speakers that were available in 1972 that were arguably better in one or more ways than L100s. Some cost more than L100s and others cost less.

AR3a
ESS AMT1
Tannoy Monitor Gold
BBC designed LS3/5a
KLH9
Quad ESL 57

A little secret is that you can indeed stuff bass reflex to tame it somewhat:

Volume filling a reflex box

Volume filling a reflex box - tests and measurements showing how correct filling can improve performance

sound-au.com

I was partly saved by Nordost flatline II cable.

 

[fpitas]

I was partly saved by Nordost flatline II cable.

Stuffing is considerably cheaper

 

[Pulkass]

Stuffing is considerably cheaper

Bracing and metallic plates glued with silicon to the inside of the cabinet, silicon gaskets. Woofers were good JBL components, the rest was shameful, in L 100 T.

 

[fpitas]

Bracing and metallic plates glued with silicon to the inside of the cabinet, silicon gaskets. Woofers were good JBL components, the rest was shameful, in L 100 T.

Bracing never hurts. Often wood dowels in strategic places do wonders.

 

[Mr. Widget]

I was partly saved by Nordost flatline II cable.

My marriage may have been saved if I had only installed a pair in my system.

 

[fpitas]

My marriage may have been saved if I had only installed a pair in my system.

A high-end cable will solve pretty much everything.

 

[Pulkass]

Bracing never hurts. Often wood dowels in strategic places do wonders.

Loudspeaker manufacturers are so cheap, c Mon few matrix bracing, treated internal walls, decent x over, a 50 bucks job. Is Capitalism so greedy?

 

[fpitas]

Loudspeaker manufacturers are so cheap, c Mon few matrix bracing, treated internal walls, decent x over, a 50 bucks job. Is Capitalism so greedy?

Yes

 

[fpitas]

Not so very long ago, only the most fanatic speaker designers believed in extensive bracing.

 

[Pulkass]

Talkin bout the devil, went to a demo last Friday, too small the room, no sound absorbing panels, too bright the room, too bright the K2s, very interesting though. Tempting l would say. Only if l had........

 

[fpitas]

The JBL Flagship store in Times Square had a theater room downstairs where I heard K2 S9900s. Wonderful speakers. They had another room with Salon2s. Also wonderful. I think they gave up on those rooms now and just sell plasticky crap, though.

 

[Woofer12]

Loved this. Thank you.

A quick correction to a mis-statement in this article--the D130F driver which was developed by Harvey Gerst for musical instrument applications, was not a 12" version of the original D130. The D130F was 15", and the D120F, an adaptation of the D131, was 12". These had a slightly larger gap, to prevent voice-coil rub, and a doped surround.

 

[Pulkass]

Even today speakers are largely a personal choice, but back then I would submit that loudspeakers had even more character, aka: were not transparent. Therefore the speakers that any one individual might have picked over a pair of L100s would have been dependent on what the listener was looking for.

The JBL 4310, which was the first version of the monitor that was to become the L100 was designed with a very forward midrange to mimic the sound of the Altec 604E monitors that were the de facto industry standard in the US. The goal was not the most accurate speaker, or the speaker with the most extended range, and certainly the polar response was not really considered. This gave the L100 an unusual and characteristic sound.

In no particular order here is a list of speakers that were available in 1972 that were arguably better in one or more ways than L100s. Some cost more than L100s and others cost less.

AR3a
ESS AMT1
Tannoy Monitor Gold
BBC designed LS3/5a
KLH9
Quad ESL 57

Absolutely true. I was 20 at the time. Went to hi fi shows.

 

[Pulkass]

Was always disapponted with JBL, very expensive, no bracing inside, very cheap x overs full of elecrolitics caps, I have had the L100T, boom boxes resonating, how can you build such a big box, no bracing inside no treated cabinet walls, had the studio 890 too, same results, dumped or sold. JBL makes appeal on good looks nothing more, only the upper super costly Thesis K 9900(???) series is very good. The studio 590 were good, by Greg Timbers extraordinaire, but soon ceased production.

 

[dagfinn]

I've talked with him at length over the years and Greg actually enjoyed the challenge of designing the smaller less costly speakers more than a no holds barred statement speaker. Yes he has highly modified Everests in his home system and not Studio 590s because they are better, but from an intellectual challenge standpoint the more budget restricted designs were some of his favorite projects.

Regarding his dismissal, I have heard the back story and beyond being an insult to a man who spent decades with a company designing many of their best remembered speakers, it was a stupid loss for JBL, Harman, Samsung. But then in my opinion this is a company with no shortage of stupid decisions.



No, no they really shouldn't. The speaker sounds like it measures. I think they are "fun" in the down memory lane sense and listening to '70s rock in a small room they are entertaining, but even back then there were so many speakers that were simply far superior.

Well, here's Erins interview with Greg from some time back, interesting I think.

Personally, I was lucky to find a nice pair of 250Ti BQ Ltd, which I have converted to actives . For me, they are examples in many designs made to improve sound, and I've read they were Gregs favourites... There's a reason for looking like they do, which I like. Today they run from 85Hz, with a Genelec sub doing low end. So 5-way...

Driven by 2x dbx 234xs crossovers and four Topping amps, PA7+ for woofer, 2x PA5II+ for mids and a LA90D for tweeters .

(Just replaced the top amp, so just a test connection to see if cables reach. I 'm putting wheels on the rack, a plan is to rewire with single 8-pole cable and speakons, I'm just slow to get it done - "so much soldering" .)
The Toppings needs to be separated to cool properly, so no stacking. Noisy part here are the dbx's, so I'm considering a miniDSP Flex HTx as next step. After playing around for a year, I find the dbx is a bit limited, and things like slope control would be nice. I'm beginning to understand why the passive c.o. are like they are. Anyway, the 250Ti still sounds amazing to me as they have become .

A picture from the Timbers interview, his project at the time. Something familiar to me going on here .

 

[MAB]

The problem Is bracing, JBL made big boxes with absolutely no bracing or inner cabinet treating. Deadening and de coupling. MOST of loudspeaker builders still do. So cheap not even putting a silicon gasket. JBL was so cheap too look at their x overs, full of by pass electrolitics, l threw my l 100 t away. I built my ultimate behemots finally in 2002, compared ti the l 100t s It was like the JBL were behind a mattress. Everest and K2 are not. But Who can afford them? JBL had a beautiful image in the 70s we all

Absolutely agree.
,

Have you ever seen or heard the actual impact of bracing? Do you have studies that show dramatic effects of bracing? Have you ever measured the actual contribution of panel resonances to the actual sound between a cabinet with and without bracing? Can you point to evidence of cabinet resonances in any of the measurements of an L100? Or even port resonances? All of this will show up big time in the measurements if they actually exist.

Even on speakers with minimal cabinet bracing and large cabinets, the cabinet resonance thing is totally overblown. And often confused with internal standing waves and port resonance (which JBL actually does a good job on many of their speakers controlling). And they have made some of the most ridiculously overbuilt cabinets of all time (XPL series as one among many examples). Not all JBL sound great, but lack of bracing the cabinet isn't the reason why.

Also, bypassed electrolytics are not a bad thing, don't result in horrible sound, are just fine if applied correctly.

Very bombastic broad brushstroke you use, not backed by any evidence, I had to respond. If you have evidence, please share.

 

[jeffaegrim]

I like JBL and feel like they have mostly been fair as a company. I had a very nice pair of vintage JBL 4301b‘s that my dad now uses - JBL included a frequency response plot in the manual, which is very little by today‘s standards but admirable for the time, imo. They also employed some obviously very talented people over time.

The financial decision to start churning out small format portable speakers to survive/grow in a capitalist market is easily understandable. Probably allowed/helped them to continue allocate resources for higher-end offerings and research

 

[Pulkass]

Have you ever seen or heard the actual impact of bracing? Do you have studies that show dramatic effects of bracing? Have you ever measured the actual contribution of panel resonances to the actual sound between a cabinet with and without bracing? Can you point to evidence of cabinet resonances in any of the measurements of an L100? Or even port resonances? All of this will show up big time in the measurements if they actually exist.

Even on speakers with minimal cabinet bracing and large cabinets, the cabinet resonance thing is totally overblown. And often confused with internal standing waves and port resonance (which JBL actually does a good job on many of their speakers controlling). And they have made some of the most ridiculously overbuilt cabinets of all time (XPL series as one among many examples). Not all JBL sound great, but lack of bracing the cabinet isn't the reason why.

Also, bypassed electrolytics are not a bad thing, don't result in horrible sound, are just fine if applied correctly.

Very bombastic broad brushstroke you use, not backed by any evidence, I had to respond. If you have evidence, please share.

My ears told me.

Have you ever seen or heard the actual impact of bracing? Do you have studies that show dramatic effects of bracing? Have you ever measured the actual contribution of panel resonances to the actual sound between a cabinet with and without bracing? Can you point to evidence of cabinet resonances in any of the measurements of an L100? Or even port resonances? All of this will show up big time in the measurements if they actually exist.

Even on speakers with minimal cabinet bracing and large cabinets, the cabinet resonance thing is totally overblown. And often confused with internal standing waves and port resonance (which JBL actually does a good job on many of their speakers controlling). And they have made some of the most ridiculously overbuilt cabinets of all time (XPL series as one among many examples). Not all JBL sound great, but lack of bracing the cabinet isn't the reason why.

Also, bypassed electrolytics are not a bad thing, don't result in horrible sound, are just fine if applied correctly.

Very bombastic broad brushstroke you use, not backed by any evidence, I had to respond. If you have evidence, please share.

My ears told me. I finally built my 3 way- 2 enclosures, heavy dampened, heavy braced, cement and fiberglass ballasted. Electronic X overed 3 amped, put in comparison with the jbl l100t , the jbl seemed to play behind a mattress. Clarity was lost detail was lost. I dumped them. Only kept the woofers. Fire place was happy.

 

[MAB]

My ears told me.

My ears told me. I finally built my 3 way- 2 enclosures, heavy dampened, heavy braced, cement and fiberglass ballasted. Electronic X overed 3 amped, put in comparison with the jbl l100t , the jbl seemed to play behind a mattress. Clarity was lost detail was lost. I dumped them. Only kept the woofers. Fire place was happy.

Thanks, bombast.

 

[Andysu]

JBL 4673A motion picture loudspeakers five screen , 4645 series subs x2 , 8330 mk2 surrounds x11 , 8330A overheads x9 JBL 4682 TCB x2 JBL control 1 x11 JBL sb-2 x3 JBL 4312 , JBL control 5 , plus x9 , JBL control 12SR modified x12 , JBL mr centre , JBL HT1F x2 JBL 2371 x12 JBL G125 x12 , JBL well just about everywhere ? with cats as well
just bass loudness
jedi blaster lightsabers THX