3e Audio TPA3251 TPA3255 Finished Amplifier with PFFB is coming!

[Maciekw]

Which code? The one posted to this forum or the one received through email for those who took the poll?

Posted on the forum works.

 

[Inertiaman]

None of the codes are working for me, neither the one posted above by 3e, or the one I received in email. In both cases, Aliexpress says "This coupon code is for single use only and can't be used here'"

 

[Inertiaman]

@3eaudio can you explain the choice of 48V/5A power supply for the A7/A7se models?

I'm happy to see these are finally orderable, but have some concerns about the power output if the amp is limited by a 5A power supply. Archimago's testing reflects a 52V/9A supply, so there seems little/no data for real world spec's if used with a 48V/5A supply.

Are the Aliexpress power supplies GaN? There is literally no information about the included power supplies. No photos, no dimensions, no specs, nothing.

 

[Cbdb2]

However, this problem is only for those who use a powerful DAC and like to listen to music at night like me and do not want to reduce the output signal from the DAC so as not to lose signal quality and dynamic range.

Whats a "powerfull DAC", dacs dont produce power. Why do you think reducing the DAC output will reduce the signal quality? It might but it might also be better, you have to reduce the signal somewhere, if not the DAC then the power amp. How do you know which way is better without the details of how these devices reduce the signal. If the DAC and amp both use pots there may be zero difference. if the DAC does it digitaly it may be better it may be worse. Either way with decent modern electronics I would bet no one can hear the difference.

 

[Inertiaman]

Another odd thing I'm seeing on Aliexpress is shipping fees escalate dramatically for 2 units of the same model. Shipping to USA is $27 for one amp, but goes to $87 if you have quantity two. Yet if you select two different amps, the shipping is $27 x 2 = $54.

Still several kinks to work out on the selling end of these things!

 

[harkpabst]

In both cases, Aliexpress says "This coupon code is for single use only and can't be used here'"

Yep, that's the message I get. Didn't try the ASR code.

One should think that after this long wait (over 6 months in my case) it should be easy to wait just a couple of hours until the glitches with the shopping platform are ironed out. Not so. The truth is I cannot wait to finally place my order.

 

[wkamil]

Now discount coupon works for me. So, 2xA7mono is right on the way, hope I'll get it before New Year

 

[Inertiaman]

Now discount coupon works for me. So, 2xA7mono is right on the way, hope I'll get it before New Year

Was your shipping cost 2X the shipping for one, or was it a big increase like my example above?

 

[wkamil]

It was like, 98 zł for one and 158 zł for two A7mono...

 

[Inertiaman]

It was like, 98 zł for one and 158 zł for two A7mono...

That's logical. Unlike the US shipping that is $27 for one and $87 for two.

 

[Inertiaman]

Is no one else concerned about the power supply for the A7 and A7se?

3e's own choices for "raw" power supplies to match with their modules are 350W and 550W to yield 140W/channel and 260W/channel, respectively. Those numbers align nicely.

But the power supplies provided with the "finished" amp are only 190W and 240W, yet the spec'd output power for the amps are the same as the modules (~ 140 and 260). This doesn't add up. Unless the included power bricks are severely under-spec'd and over-performing, I don't see how the potential output power of the amps can be realized.

Archimago showed the A5 delivering 121W/channel using the 38V/5A supply, so apparently the bricks are capable of delivering marginally more amps than the spec, in this case ~7A depending on efficiency. But I'm skeptical that the 48V/5A supply can actually deliver ~10A or more, which is what would be required to reach the amp's rated output.

Are these supplies able to deliver 2X their rated current for brief periods? Is there something else I'm missing?

 

[harkpabst]

Archimago showed the A5 delivering 121W/channel using the 38V/5A supply, so apparently the bricks are capable of delivering marginally more amps than the spec, in this case ~7A depending on efficiency. But I'm skeptical that the 48V/5A supply can actually deliver ~10A or more, which is what would be required to reach the amp's rated output.

Archimago has been sent a 38V/5A (190W) PSU "meant for the A5" and a 52V/9A (468W) "meant to power the A7 models".

Apparently he's actually been using the 38V/5A PSU for measuring the A5, so as a proud future A5 owner (order just placed, email code did work now) I feel rather safe.

The 52V/9A PSU appears rather overpowered for the monoblocks, but not so for the A7 stereo models. The retail units are currently advertised to come with a 48V/5A PSU, so the maximum power output will be slightly lower than with a 52V PSU anyway (but performance should be somewhat better). Even assuming that the 190W PSU is good enough for 2x120W = 240 W continuously (as per definition), the same margin in percent applied to the 48V/5A PSU would only get you to 2x150W = 300 W.

 

[Inertiaman]

Agree with you @harkpabst , that the A5/A5se and the A7 Mono supplies aren't concerning. The A5 has been shown to reach near its spec by Archimago (he only reached 121W while the spec is 150W, but he tests at 0.1% while 3e specs at 1%). And given the A7 Mono only powers one channel, the 48V/5A should suffice.

Its only the A7/A7se stereo amps that would seem to be under-supplied by the 48V/5A. Its the only thing holding me back from placing an order.

 

[harkpabst]

Agree with you @harkpabst , that the A5/A5se and the A7 Mono supplies aren't concerning. The A5 has been shown to reach near its spec by Archimago (he only reached 121W while the spec is 150W, but he tests at 0.1% while 3e specs at 1%). And given the A7 Mono only powers one channel, the 48V/5A should suffice.

Its only the A7/A7se stereo amps that would seem to be under-supplied by the 48V/5A. Its the only thing holding me back from placing an order.

I feel your pain. 3e Audio initially stated that the A5/A7 series would be available with and without a PSU. It might be worth waiting for that offer and sourcing a higher powered PSU locally. OTOH the discount might not apply then anymore. Tough decision.

My A5 will just be driving a pair of full range speakers based on the spectacular Dayton Audio RS100-4. They are augmented by a subwoofer with proper LR4 high pass and low pass filtering at 125 Hz thanks to the equally fantastic WiiM Ultra. No way I will ever come even close to the power limit set by the A5. I'd like to see @3eaudio presenting their view in the case of an A7se driving speakers with no sub involved.

 

[Tofffsy]

@3eaudio Could you tell me how many opamps are swappable by the openings under the units with the A7 mono? One or two like the stereo A7 ?

Also It's a little bit confusing, I on't understand this in the user guide, if I use some OPA1612 that are ±2.25V to ±18V do I have to change the J30 setting?

Thanks

 

[Ropeburn]

@3eaudio Could you tell me how many opamps are swappable by the openings under the units with the A7 mono? One or two like the stereo A7 ?

Also It's a little bit confusing, I on't understand this in the user guide, if I use some OPA1612 that are ±2.25V to ±18V do I have to change the J30 setting?

Thanks

I can see how that doesn't seem very clear to someone who isn't exactly a trained electrotechnician - it isn't even overly clear to someone who is. Which is exactly why I discourage the whole "opamp rolling" thing. It's not something a company should advise their laymen customers to do.

Anyhow, it really looks like:

If the to-be inserted opamp type can operate with a supply voltage within +-17 to +-18V (34-38V total), it's fine. Only when it can't and is only rated for +-15V (=30), which is rather common, you need to set jumper J30 on the board - which apparently lowers the supply voltage to that level.

I can figure this out, so can everyone who knows a bit about electronics. But the point is: the average customer can't.

It's not a good idea at all to advise this.

 

[Inertiaman]

I feel your pain. 3e Audio initially stated that the A5/A7 series would be available with and without a PSU. It might be worth waiting for that offer and sourcing a higher powered PSU locally. OTOH the discount might not apply then anymore. Tough decision.

My A5 will just be driving a pair of full range speakers based on the spectacular Dayton Audio RS100-4. They are augmented by a subwoofer with proper LR4 high pass and low pass filtering at 125 Hz thanks to the equally fantastic WiiM Ultra. No way I will ever come even close to the power limit set by the A5. I'd like to see @3eaudio presenting their view in the case of an A7se driving speakers with no sub involved.

My setup is a pair of 84db sensitivity 2-way speakers playing full range, no sub. So while 90% of my listening could probably be supported by an A5, I like the power margin w/ an A7 or A7se.

 

[3eaudio]

1. if the coupons doesn't work please email us or DM me directly
2. the opamp change are 2pcs for all model except A7Mono(it is half of A7),you can see from the board picture
3. default op-amp: total 3 pcs NE5532P for A5se,A7se, NE5532P for SE to BAL, 2pcs OPA1656 for BAL to TPA3255,the 2 opamp marked with swapable no need open the case as there are 2 holes for un/install
4. currently only sell with 5A power supply that is because the size and weight is limited(ship cost will increase significantly if higher 2kg),we will figure out better solution but not ETA yet.
5. all PSU are GaN and 38V/5A and 48V/5A OCP are above 7.5A(8-9A typ),that is why for A5se/A5 it can output 140Wx2 at 1%TDHN, for A7se/A7, it can output 180Wx2,fot most of the user case it is enough, if you really need higher power and drive low impedance speaker, then 48V/10A will make sense, this logic apply to other brand and there was many discussion you may have a look. fyi @Inertiaman
6. thanks for all your questions and feedback and we will take them all and get it done asap as we can.

 

[harkpabst]

all PSU are GaN and 38V/5A and 48V/5A OCP are above 7.5A(8-9A typ),that is why for A5se/A5 it can output 140Wx2 at 1%TDHN, for A7se/A7, it can output 180Wx2,fot most of the user case it is enough ...

Great to know!

 

[Inertiaman]

all PSU are GaN and 38V/5A and 48V/5A OCP are above 7.5A(8-9A typ),that is why for A5se/A5 it can output 140Wx2 at 1%TDHN, for A7se/A7, it can output 180Wx2,fot most of the user case it is enough

This makes a mathematical argument against A7/A7se, at least with the current shipping costs and power supply options.

You're paying $30 more and conceding some SNR performance only to gain slightly more than 1db (180W vs 140W). Doesn't make much sense.

I acknowledge this is largely an artifact of shipping costs and not 3e design choices. But its relevant nonetheless.

For my application, I'd ideally get two A7se or A7 with no power supplies at the $27 shipping charge (assuming weight of amp ~= weight of 48V/5A power supply). Then acquire power supplies independently.