3e Audio A5 Stereo Amplifier Review

[somebodyelse]

This is not like "do I hear the ESS imd hump" or anything subtle, but a day and night difference. If you discover new cues and symbols in tracks you have known for 20 years, there is no point discussing if it's just in the brain any further. The sound stage is totally different between the two amps, even vocals sound different. It's silly having to defend that. To me this is like you asking me for a proof that my couch is blue. I can see the couch being blue any day of the week but now you want proof.

The freaking astrophysicists can't even agree on if anything is real or not, but you guys pretend to be robots with "standardized ears". The ugly truth is that human capabilities differ so vastly, that we outperform each other so profoundly that you could put all the math books every written into your neighbors brain and still he wouldn't turn into Einstein!

Same applies here. Not every brain is musical. Not every ear is good. Some are just waaaaaaay better. We have to live with that. Hearing capabilities (as visual capabilities, f.e. edge detection) in anyone can be greatly improved by the use of various drugs entheogens though.

The trouble is such 'obvious' differences often disappear when proper controls are used (levels matched with a meter at the terminals, can't peek etc.) so without the controls the rest of us can't tell whether the difference was genuine or just your brain playing tricks.

See https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...are-measurements-everything-or-nothing.62954/ for how such exchanges usually go - that thread is where they often get moved to.

 

[Punchy_Power_Cat]

The trouble is such 'obvious' differences often disappear when proper controls

I agree in general terms, but in my case the difference is very audible. With the other SINAD 75-85 amp there is just not that much control in the mix. Also you'd have to consider that SINAD expresses the sum of two totals (noise and thd). There can be even bigger differences in certain frequency ranges. With the A5 I can follow the "hi-hat" even under heavy multitone sequences, it stays present at its place the entire time. Same goes for symbols, cues and so forth, they're more up front and have better seperation when it gets "crowded". With that said, I am very pleased with the performance of the A5.

 

[harkpabst]

With that said, I am very pleased with the performance of the A5.

But, of course, the Sabaj A20a is still vastly superior, right?

"It probably comes down to the difference between a filtered IC and a non filtered IC. It is very interesting. There is no way the Merus amp measures better, but it sounds so much more vivid."

"2xTPA3251-A5 : James Brown sounds awesome, everything else slightly muffled 2xMA12070-A20a : Everything sounds awesome, James Brown give you a headache."

"That doesn't mean that there is no base with the A5 it is just not nearly as full and deep as I am used to."

"I can get the woofers to bounce on that track with the A5 too but I will have to tune the volume up much further, up to a point at which it will get painful to listen to at my distance. There is for sure a difference. The base overall is more "loose", not muddy or unprecise, but clearly not as full and powerful sounding. You will have to consider multiple factors that may be at play here."

And so far you still told us that the inappropriate PSU was the likely reason:

"Anyways, the GaN PSU is still not out of questioning. I have read reports of high frequency noise and there are safety concerns with such low cost PSU in any case. Certificates seem fake too. The manufacturer is blacklisted by german TUV for fake certificates on other PSU units."

I wonder if you are assessing the 85 dB SINAD vs. 100 dB SINAD comparison based on the same level of objectivity and "not just opinion but experience" as the comparison between the A5 and the A20a ...

 

[Punchy_Power_Cat]

But, of course, the Sabaj A20a is still vastly superior, right?

I never said superior. The term used was "vivid". Is still have this feeling. We would have to look into how those amps handle slew rates, since the MA12070 is using a "floating state" and the TPA is not. However, there is also a difference in a filtered and non-filtered design that will for sure make a difference in the timing domain, because in a filtered amp there must be a greater delay due to the signal passing multiple instances (filters, relays, pffb) that it wouldn't have to go through in the non filtered amp. If it's audible is another question. I suppose it might be to critical ears.

With the MA12070 playing more bass, you come late to the party with an outdated argument. The user Roland68 already brought to light that the MA12070 is probably EQed in a way I didn't anticipate beforehand.

And so far you still told us that the inappropriate PSU was the likely reason:

Reason for what? The Infineon amp playing more vivid? That obviously cannot be the case and I never made that point. The PSU was questioned by two things a)HF noise (which I do not hear, just read about) and b)safety reasons long term usage-wise.

 

[harkpabst]

I never said superior. The term used was "vivid".

OK, so "so much more vivid" doesn't mean "superior" in your vocabulary. This is important to know. One amplifier working better with all recordings except one doesn't mean "superior". Interesting as well. The bass being less "loose" and "more full and powerful sounding" is not superior but ... what exactly is it?

We would have to look into how those amps handle slew rates, since the MA12070 is using a "floating state" and the TPA is not. However, there is also a difference in a filtered and non-filtered design that will for sure make a difference in the timing domain, because in a filtered amp there must be a greater delay due to the signal passing multiple instances (filters, relays, pffb) that it wouldn't have to go through in the non filtered amp.

You have no technical proof at all but still know that there must be "something" about floating states, filtered and non-filtered designs and - of course - some magic going on in "the time domain". Sorry, but this sounds just like the typical audiophile blurb.

I suppose it might be to critical ears.

I'm really glad that I'm not completely deaf. My ears are not infinitely sensitive to phenomena in the time domain, admittedly.

With the MA12070 playing more bass, you come late to the party with an outdated argument. The user @Roland68 already brought to light that the MA12070 is probably EQed in a way I didn't anticipate beforehand.

So far your only response to @Roland68 was that you've never ever used any of the tone controls or EQ. It would've been really helpful to get your acknowledgement that the differences in sound you detected might have been due to built-in EQ, not power supplies or filters or whatever.

Reason for what? The Infineon amp playing more vivid? That obviously cannot be the case and I never made that point. The PSU was questioned by two things a)HF noise (which I do not hear, just read about) and b)safety reasons long term usage-wise.

Everybody is free to read your original post:

Very interesting. I totally forgot they had EQ and tone controls. Never used any of it but there is a good chance you are correct with the assumption. I will have it checked.

Anyways, the GaN PSU is still not out of questioning. I have read reports of high frequency noise and there are safety concerns with such low cost PSU in any case. Certificates seem fake too. The manufacturer is blacklisted by german TUV for fake certificates on other PSU units. I am contemplating a Mean Well LOP-400-36 to run the A5. It has ~95% efficiency with loads below 10%. Probably the most efficient PSU for amps there is. Rise time is about 6ms and ripple is very low @1Khz as it is @100Hz. It even has 150% peak ability.

 

[Punchy_Power_Cat]

You have no technical proof at all but still know that there must be "something"

I don't believe I own technical proof to you for I have not made a specific technical claim. The questions I rose may not seem profound to you or may lack validity from your individual perspective, however, neither is it your obligation to apply limitations upon the topics discussed, nor have you attributed any knowledge or clarification on the matter beyond pointing at other users contribution. Thank you however, for adding reach to my posts by cloning them without reasonable intent.

 

[Alannn]

Ok, that's a good place to let this rest. Nothing of value will get added to this thread with further discussion of @Punchy_Power_Cat 's experience. He has already made his point as clear as he can for the record. Others may have the same or different experience, that is a given. I will keep my opinion of his posts to myself.

 

[falang]

Do these amps have the Soyyin branding as shown on the AliExpress website?

 

[ziggurcat]

Do these amps have the Soyyin branding as shown on the AliExpress website?

Not to my knowledge. At least not on the A7 I have, but this photo that appears to have been added recently on the AliExpress product page shows that it might on the latest production batch:

@3eaudio can maybe chime in, and confirm.

 

[Mario_Primo]

Do these amps have the Soyyin branding as shown on the AliExpress website?

order from 11.03.3025

 

[Marc v E]

Btw ordered and been using the A5 too. Great amp. Couldn't wish for more. They are really small but pack some power.

 

[SlowJim]

Prices on these shot up, from 229 to over 350 shipped for US. Stupid tariffs

 

[anonyless]

Prices on these shot up, from 229 to over 350 shipped for US. Stupid tariffs

280$ shipped on their Amazon US store for the A5 (i think the A7 is out of stock)

 

[SMen]

Do these amps have the Soyyin branding as shown on the AliExpress website?

Thankfully not in the latest batch (that were in the sale) - took delivery of an A7.

 

[anonyless]

Thankfully not in the latest batch (that were in the sale) - took delivery of an A7.

not on ANY batch - take a look here (timed to a specific moment you can see the amp)

Randy reviewed the A5 "2024 version" with the trigger input . even then, no Soyyin branding on the front
EDIT: Amir's A5 review sample as well (go to the first page of this thread)

 

[Guddu]

Do these amps have the Soyyin branding as shown on the AliExpress website?

Thankfully not in the latest batch (that were in the sale) - took delivery of an A7.

I think I read a reply from @3eaudio that they aren’t doing to use any branding.
But I would say it shouldn’t be an issue for anyone if they use it on the back plate in case if it’s needed in future.

 

[SMen]

I think I read a reply from @3eaudio that they aren’t doing to use any branding.
But I would say it shouldn’t be an issue for anyone if they use it on the back plate in case if it’s needed in future.

Good suggestion regarding the back plate ... don't mess with a brand ... 3e Audio is just fine. I can see this is the A5 review thread ... the main threads regarding 3e have kind of 'merged'. ... I have both the A5 and the A7 ... they don't sound the same interestingly to my ears ... but that might be for the user's thread.

I hope @3eaudio don't play with the branding for their 'complete' units with integrated power supplies... that might be for a new thread...

 

[ziggurcat]

Good suggestion regarding the back plate ... don't mess with a brand ... 3e Audio is just fine. I can see this is the A5 review thread ... the main threads regarding 3e have kind of 'merged'. ... I have both the A5 and the A7 ... they don't sound the same interestingly to my ears ... but that might be for the user's thread.

I hope @3eaudio don't play with the branding for their 'complete' units with integrated power supplies... that might be for a new thread...

I recall @3eaudio saying something like SOYYIN was the actual name of the company (or that it was changing to be that name... something along those lines).

Frankly, I don't see the problem if they use any branding on the front of the amp. Just about every company (Topping, Fosi, Douk, Sabaj, Loxjie, SMSL, etc...) that makes these types of devices has their company name on the face of them, so... *shrugs*

 

[SMen]

I recall @3eaudio saying something like SOYYIN was the actual name of the company (or that it was changing to be that name... something along those lines).

Frankly, I don't see the problem if they use any branding on the front of the amp. Just about every company (Topping, Fosi, Douk, Sabaj, Loxjie, SMSL, etc...) that makes these types of devices has their company name on the face of them, so... *shrugs*

Yes ... but Topping, Fosi, Douk, Sabaj, Loxjie, SMSL, etc... are not changing their brand name. It takes time to build a brand and well, my tuppenny's worth is that 3e have developed a brand that equates to quality and value ... despite being slightly more expensive than Fosi, Douk etc.

A good niche.

 

[falang]

I recall @3eaudio saying something like SOYYIN was the actual name of the company (or that it was changing to be that name... something along those lines).

Frankly, I don't see the problem if they use any branding on the front of the amp. Just about every company (Topping, Fosi, Douk, Sabaj, Loxjie, SMSL, etc...) that makes these types of devices has their company name on the face of them, so... *shrugs*

I may be a little picky, but I could not purchase a product with such bland branding. Even without the Soyyinn, the giant A5 or A7 in the left hand corner is not my cup of tea. I'll wait for the rebrand. Or in the least,when it reaches Amazon Canada so it can be returned easily if needed.