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3-Body Problem

phoenixdogfan

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This criticism is particularly absurd given that the show relocates the book’s main present day action from China to the UK. Whitewashing would be more of a valid criticism than the argument you’re making here (though to be clear I’m not making that criticism, and Cixin Liu gave his blessing to this locational change).

The story is supposed to be a global one about humanity’s encounter with the “dark forest” of intelligent life in the universe, and so it makes perfect artistic sense to have a cast that reflects a decently wide swath of the human family. But you only see DEI box-checking and simply assume that the artistic standard has been compromised by it (based on your evidence-free assertion that they didn’t pick the best actors for the characters).

The location has been moved from a country where 95% of the people are of a single ethnicity to one of the most globally diverse cities on the planet. If you don’t like the ethnic diversity of the cast then don’t travel to London. But that’s got nothing to do with the artistic integrity of the show.
Thing is you've always had DEI in some form or other in lots of war movies and SF movies. For example, war stories have always had several "types" in a platoon--the wet behind the ears college boy lieutenant, the grizzled "lifer" sergeant, the "tough guy" hoodlum, the resourceful scrounger, the terrified kid, and the radio operator from Brooklyn. In classic 1950's Sci-fi "we go there" movies you have the middle aged rocket scientist, the young sexist pilot, the hottie female who's usually a biologist/medical doctor, and the radio operator from Brooklyn. It just a convention to have these "types" in these kinds of movies. The idea of having certain stock characters in certain kinds of literature goes all the way back to Classical literature runs through Medieval drama, and continues with modern novels and into contemporary cinema.

What changes are the "types" of stock characters presented in each of these forms of story telling as the art adapts to the era. When literature first started, all the characters were gods and heroes, later it came to include the nobility, then it came to include the middle class, then the lower strata of society, then women. Now, it's including people of different ethnicities, skin pigmentation, and sexual orientations. Anyone who's studied literature would understand that's just the natural progression. Everyone reads books and watches movies, and they want characters who look and act like them. So inclusion of these diverse individuals is now a convention of storytelling in 21st century art. Nothing to get excited about. Just make a space for everyone, that's all.
 
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Multicore

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What do you think People!
I watched the first episode yesterday. It has that Hi-Budget Netflix International feel to it, like so much high-end TV since The Sopranos. Very Orthodox. Devoid of humor and contemporary dissidence. There have been some exceptions in this genre that I liked. Off the top of my head: the Neil Gaiman The Sandman (and I'm usually not into comic book stuff), and Babylon Berlin. I'll probably be able to sit through 3 Body Problems without complaining too much, like I managed with The Fall of the House of Usher, although in the end I felt cheated by that overblown soap opera that led to a nothing ending.
 

Multicore

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What if the 3-Body Problem were to continue into multiple seasons, would you welcome that?

It's one thing to write a drama as an 8-hour TV show. But an open-ended thing is completely different. The latter is more an exercise in style than in drama.

For example I thought the TV version of The Man in the High Castle was mostly OK but it turned into a handle-turning exercise of producing episodes (like Breaking Bad when that went into a second season). This was confirmed when the budget was finally pulled and the show ended with a catastrophically stupid final episode. It was so bad that I struggled not to repudiate the whole thing and I had friends who did. The writers all but admitted in media interviews that, faced with their unprecedented requirement to write an ending, they improvised. You're adapting PKD FFS. Don't improvise!
 

tmtomh

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What if the 3-Body Problem were to continue into multiple seasons, would you welcome that?

It's one thing to write a drama as an 8-hour TV show. But an open-ended thing is completely different. The latter is more an exercise in style than in drama.

For example I thought the TV version of The Man in the High Castle was mostly OK but it turned into a handle-turning exercise of producing episodes (like Breaking Bad when that went into a second season). This was confirmed when the budget was finally pulled and the show ended with a catastrophically stupid final episode. It was so bad that I struggled not to repudiate the whole thing and I had friends who did. The writers all but admitted in media interviews that, faced with their unprecedented requirement to write an ending, they improvised. You're adapting PKD FFS. Don't improvise!

This is one reason I've often admired UK series: they have fewer episodes in a season, and they seem to be planned to wrap up in 1-3 seasons in many cases. It allows for a coherent story arc without jumping the shark or turning into unintentional self-parody. And to your point, I'm sure we can all name a bunch of US TV series that would've been so much better had they ended sooner, Westworld and Game of Thrones coming to mind immediately.
 
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Multicore

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This is one reason I've often admired UK series: they have fewer episodes in a season, and they seem to be planned to wrap up in 1-3 seasons in many cases.
Yeah. I really like the old UK mini-series format with, say, four 1-hour eps. A Very British Coup. House of Cards. And they did a good one a year or two ago called Inside Man (with Doctor Who's David Tennant). This is just about the ideal TV format to do something like a Shakespearean drama.
 

ExPerfectionist

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I read book 1 last year in anticipation of the show coming out. To me the writing was clinical and dry, kind of soul-less, but I enjoyed the science/pseudo-science aspect, aliens, competing factions, and the "what if" nature of it all.

I've watched 5 episodes of the show so far and am thoroughly enjoying it. I had forgotten some things about the story after the raid on the event and the nanowire at Panama Canal bit, so it's cool seeing the things I forgot about unfold. If the series were "more authentic" to the book I think it would be more dry, more slow-paced, and lacking the human element that is easier to get across in a book where you can have inner dialogs but don't really work on screen (hence turning one character into the 3 in the UK).

From the early trailers I was a little worried, including seeing Josh Bradley (Jack Rooney) in the VR world, wondering how much they would end up changing and if it would still have the same spirit and vibe. But IMO it very much encapsulates the vibe, the threat and urgency and forboding doom, of the book.

Yes they did move it form China/Asia to the UK. There was one character that was turned into 3 of the friend group (events/storylines shifted around), and I have read that 2 of the other group of friends are from books 2~3 and shifted to earlier in the show. The investigator (Benedict Wong) and Liam Cunningham (Davos on GoT) character -- MI5 or something? -- they are reduced from the gritty street-wise investigator and an international task force made up of an alliance military heads from various countries in the book.

I haven't seen the last 3 episodes of the season, but there are a few things from the book that could have added more human elements to the story, including
seeing Ye Wenjie turn more ruthless at the Red Base as foreshadowing, but also in the book her daughter was from her relationship with one of the men there, not the rich guy, IIRC. In the book there was also a lot more time spent in the VR game, but I think the show captures the spirit well enough and the "empathy test" of the little girl and seeing who would care about actually saving the people/aliens.
 

phoenixdogfan

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What if the 3-Body Problem were to continue into multiple seasons, would you welcome that?

It's one thing to write a drama as an 8-hour TV show. But an open-ended thing is completely different. The latter is more an exercise in style than in drama.

For example I thought the TV version of The Man in the High Castle was mostly OK but it turned into a handle-turning exercise of producing episodes (like Breaking Bad when that went into a second season). This was confirmed when the budget was finally pulled and the show ended with a catastrophically stupid final episode. It was so bad that I struggled not to repudiate the whole thing and I had friends who did. The writers all but admitted in media interviews that, faced with their unprecedented requirement to write an ending, they improvised. You're adapting PKD FFS. Don't improvise!

OTOH, in going multiple seasons, they could wind up producing something like "Dark" or "The Expanse". Liu has certainly created enough material for this show to run ten or more seasons. The real question is whether the show runners are up to producing quality over than span. Certainly don't want it sputtering out like GOT. The classic example of "handle turning" is "Lost". I think whenever a show loses its narrative momentum and spins off an endless series of sub plots relating to its characters' past or inner lives, it becomes soap opera. Whatever its faults, Liu's books do have a narrative direction, and in order for this Netflix adaptation to be successful, the producers will have to improve on the plot, give more believable characters but balance their development with the momentous developments in the story so each element sharpens to other.
 

tmtomh

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OTOH, in going multiple seasons, they could wind up producing something like "Dark" or "The Expanse". Liu has certainly created enough material for this show to run ten or more seasons. The real question is whether the show runners are up to producing quality over than span. Certainly don't want it sputtering out like GOT. The classic example of "handle turning" is "Lost". I think whenever a show loses its narrative momentum and spins off an endless series of sub plots relating to its characters' past or inner lives, it becomes soap opera. Whatever its faults, Liu's books do have a narrative direction, and in order for this Netflix adaptation to be successful, the producers will have to improve on the plot, give more believable characters but balance their development with the momentous developments in the story so each element sharpens to other.

That would be great - The Expanse is a great example of a show that was well-plotted from beginning to end and had a wonderful (IMHO) finale.
 

Blumlein 88

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Not too many shows as well done as the Expanse. Even more surprising is the first 3 seasons were with SyFy channel which declined to continue. Then Amazon picked it up for the last 3 seasons without interfering with the makers of the series. Another show that was well done and concluded imo was the old Babylon 5 series. It was originally conceived as 5 seasons and the makers said there would be no more. So the ending fit as it was envisioned from the start. I'd like an HD remake except I doubt they would do it without messing it up.
 

voodooless

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Even more surprising is the first 3 seasons were with SyFy channel which declined to continue. Then Amazon picked it up for the last 3 seasons without interfering with the makers of the series
They should have, the last season was kinda shit.. Then again, Amazons track records with their own shows is kinda :facepalm:
 
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BDWoody

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Let's move on from the DEI topic please.

Some may have missed this, so a bunch of posts were deleted and we'll try again.
 
OP
F

FrantzM

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Hi
Not too many shows as well done as the Expanse. Even more surprising is the first 3 seasons were with SyFy channel which declined to continue. Then Amazon picked it up for the last 3 seasons without interfering with the makers of the series. Another show that was well done and concluded imo was the old Babylon 5 series. It was originally conceived as 5 seasons and the makers said there would be no more. So the ending fit as it was envisioned from the start. I'd like an HD remake except I doubt they would do it without messing it up.
The Expanse must be one, if not the best Sci-Fi series ever...or very close to it.. I believe the books writers were also part of the Series writing or producing team. I do believe that a Series must have a limited lifespan, around 5 years/season; else it becomes a soap opera, a regular thing people watch , to feed the need for gossip as part of human interactions.

The show is good and can improve if care is taken to better flesh out the characters and put in perspective some incongruities For example if the San ti are so powerful as to disturb so many things , including computers, they could simply put earth civilization in a state of chaos and by the time they arrive would find a pristine planet devoid of intelligent bugs and terraformed, or, Santiformed to their specs... This would sustain the need to resist and fight, if they have no flaws, despair and abdication are the only recourses.

I'll forge on, I like it so far. The thing with Netflix , is that they may just axe the Series... Customers or critics opinions be damned. I believe (or hope) this will at some point hurt them.

Peace.
 
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Gorgonzola

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I'm loving it and looking forward to future season(s).

Yeah, it's the well-worn alien invasion cliché but this is no boring GI Joe versus insectoid monsters scenario. There are so many twists from that norm which make it quite engrossing.

The first twists is that it takes three episode for it to become quite clear that its an impending alien invasion. Another is the fact that the actual invasion is to be 400 years in the future and the aliens strategy is to stifle human technological advance in the interim. Other twists off the top of my head including the fact the aliens are invited to earth by a victim of the Mao's Cultural Revolution. Yet another is the thoroughly religion cult that develops of people disaffected with humanity supporting the invaders.
 
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ExPerfectionist

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I finished the final 3 episodes last night. I think the end of the first book was around episode 5, with some things like
Dr Ye returning to Red Base to see the sunset and the scene with the reference to the locusts
still from book 1.

But I think 6-8 started pulling in elements from book 2, The Dark Forest. I wasn't familiar with stuff that was going on. I'm excited to read The Dark Forest and ordered book 3 Death's End so I can read it later this year.
 

radix

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I mostly enjoyed the series. I thought the pacing was OK. It's a drama, not an action movie.

If the aliens are so powerful that they can make super-computer multi-dimensional protons, can't they find another freaking planet? They had to wait eons for some barely-able-to-modulate monkeys to call them?

Really, we know a bunch about Proxima b at 4.2 light years even with our primitive technology compared to those aliens.
 
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