3-Body Problem

[Gringoaudio1]

Seen 3 episodes so far. It’s indeed not the exact story from the books. It’s a bit slow, but given the reviews I expected worse. So far it was fairly enjoyable, though the DEI is surely distracting.

Truly a horrible thing to say. Racist, sexist or out of touch old man. Are you one or more?

 

[JeffS7444]

AFAIK there are TWO Chinese adaptions... a finished film that was never released (an American phenomena with Chinese characteristics), the incredibly poor paced Tencent version and this current Netflix version.

There's a PRC-produced series currently streaming on Amazon's Prime Video too. Am a bit frustrated with that one, because parts of it only make sense to me because I'm familiar with the books.

 

[JeffS7444]

I'm a fan of Liu's works, particularly how he presents the reader with a scenario which seems supernatural or magical, then winds up giving the reader a scientific explanation which is much freakier!

 

[Blumlein 88]

Truly a horrible thing to say. Racist, sexist or out of touch old man. Are you one or more?

I find it distracting too. Maybe I'm all three, but I don't consider truth horrible. It is abundantly clear it was on purpose rather than organic. So if they think it worth going out of their way to create this way I find myself under no compunctions against noticing and disliking it. It is so obviously checking a list of boxes.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

Do we need a list of amazing female and black and Asian scientists and their contributions? The reality is that white men are in fact losing ground to women and minorities at the top of the academic world. Slowly of course. White men still dominate in STEM.
This is a bad reflection on ASR that we have to even have to have this discussion.
Also it’s a tv show. You want visually appealing people that the young target audience would identify with that match what what they see in their peer groups. It’s not the world we grew up in. Plus it’s aspirational to show people who haven’t had the advantages white men have had succeeding. So maybe it was deliberate casting. Still distasteful to mention it. And embarrassing.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Do we need a list of amazing female and black and Asian scientists and their contributions? The reality is that white men are in fact losing ground to women and minorities at the top of the academic world. Slowly of course. White men still dominate in STEM.
This is a bad reflection on ASR that we have to even have to have this discussion.
Also it’s a tv show. You want visually appealing people that the young target audience would identify with that match what what they see in their peer groups. It’s not the world we grew up in. Plus it’s aspirational to show people who haven’t had the advantages white men have had succeeding. So maybe it was deliberate casting. Still distasteful to mention it.

You don't understand why I don't like it at all. You have some stereotype of who I am which is off base. See I don't like what they do because it is so careful to in their mind refuting a stereotype. That is why it is not organic and sticks out. Done differently it wouldn't matter who was in each of those parts. I'm not thinking it should only be white men. I'm thinking it should not be a required list of stereotypical diverse groups that has to have each one checked off by rote. Which is why I despise the lists that have to be checked off to be eligible for some of the industry awards now. It is stupid and it is racist to approach it that way.

 

[tmtomh]

I find it distracting too. Maybe I'm all three, but I don't consider truth horrible. It is abundantly clear it was on purpose rather than organic. So if they think it worth going out of their way to create this way I find myself under no compunctions against noticing and disliking it. It is so obviously checking a list of boxes.

It never ceases to amuse me when folks complain about the races, ethnicities, and genders of dramatic characters being "on purpose" when the movie or TV show is an adaptation of a work of fiction, which is by definition "on purpose" and not "organic." In the case of Liu's sprawling books (which I loved!), I don't remember every character's name, but if memory serves there are at least some whose race/ethnicity is not even knowable from the book. (Of course any Chinese character in the book should be played by an actor who "looks Chinese," but even that is an appearance that means something a bit different to most of us westerners than to people from Southeast Asia.)

In these situations the only thing that's "organic" is your own unexamined expectations of what kind of racial, ethnic, and/or gender identity each fictional character "should" have.

 

[Blumlein 88]

In these situations the only thing that's "organic" is your own unexamined expectations of what kind of racial, ethnic, and/or gender identity each fictional character "should" have.

The unorganic part is this cast was constructed to fit a list. Again I wouldn't care who was in which part. If they had some actors in mind who fit the part and get whoever fits okay. That didn't happen here. They had a list to check off and filtered the casting through that list. So if you have 10 characters of unknowable characteristics it shows if you have one of each on your matrix of intersectionality.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

The unorganic part is this cast was constructed to fit a list. Again I wouldn't care who was in which part. If they had some actors in mind who fit the part and get whoever fits okay. That didn't happen here. They had a list to check off and filtered the casting through that list. So if you have 10 characters of unknowable characteristics it shows if you have one of each on your matrix of intersectionality.

How are you so sure of that checklist? The story and it is a story … is fine with the cast it has. Who in particular bugs you? Frankly I don’t like Auggie, the character of the inventor of the nanofibre. At all. Could have been anyone of any race or colour. She is not tough to look at but maybe she’s the only poorly cast one for me. And her acting is the weakest. I haven’t read the books so I’m not qualified to judge your disappointment with the casting I admit. Saul probably could have been your stereotypical white male scientist from Brooklyn or something. But why? The actor chosen does a fine job. The ship commander Raj as a south Asian is just a distinct possibility of the reality of modern British racial makeup. Jenn or rather Jin seemed perfect for the role. All the overachievers I know are Asian frankly.

 

[Axo1989]

Seen 3 episodes so far. It’s indeed not the exact story from the books. It’s a bit slow, but given the reviews I expected worse. So far it was fairly enjoyable, though the DEI is surely distracting.

I'm not following the DEI comment either, I guessed following the book, the cast should be very Chinese? Are we complaining that they aren't?

I haven't either read or watched yet so may have this wrong (like @Somafunk I haven't finished Constellation, which is pretty good but requires focus—and I made the mistake of starting before it finished, hence some waiting). It takes a bit to get me to watch a Netflix show these days, so many aren't good at all. But some are very good, you never know.

 

[voodooless]

How are you so sure of that checklist?

Because that is ubiquitous in Hollywood. They even get tax credits for it.

Check the wiki on the book characters, they are almost all Chinese, which isn’t surprising given that the author is as well. So what you see on-screen has little to do with those characters, other than the superficial story lines. And that’s okay. The series is a loose adaptation of the books, not a 1:1 retelling.

As I goes, I dislike the casting of Auggie as well. I just find her very much unconvincing for the role somehow. Other than that, I have little issues with the cast overall. I dislike the character of Saul so far, but that’s just how his role is written So he’s actually doing a decent job.

I do have issues with scenes like the one in the karaoke bar, which is very stereotypically silly and unnecessary.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Because that is ubiquitous in Hollywood. They even get tax credits for it.

Check the wiki on the book characters, they are almost all Chinese, which isn’t surprising given that the author is as well. So what you see on-screen has little to do with those characters, other than the superficial story lines. And that’s okay. The series is a loose adaptation of the books, not a 1:1 retelling.

As I goes, I dislike the casting of Auggie as well. I just find her very much unconvincing for the role somehow. Other than that, I have little issues with the cast overall. I dislike the character of Saul so far, but that’s just how his role is written So he’s actually doing a decent job.

I do have issues with scenes like the one in the karaoke bar, which is very stereotypically silly and unnecessary.

Yes Auggie is a weak link and a central character. I'm watching the show. The cast is a distraction not a deal killer.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Was watching episode 8 and .. my internet went, down, again, (another story, I would share with you in due time) ... So far, I like the show very much, more than what I remember from the books, that at the time I found very interesting and unsettling. It was IMHO a sort of cautionary tale: We have been beaming things toward the unknown, expecting a friendly response...
The books' prose is unusual, I would not call it bad... For me reading these, was kind of an awkward, consistently recalibrating progression...similar to when I started reading Ann Leickie's "Ancillary Justice" (A good book BTW)
About the characters... I find their over-moralizing annoying. They're no heroes and project the kind of ennui, even blasé of so many young people from developed nations. Saul, happens to be a scientist, almost by accident:
Spoiler alert

I am good at Physics, but I don't like Physics.

For many of these people they only have rights, not duties, nor obligations. Saul, is not an engaged and enthusiastic scientist, he seems to spend much time vaping things. Out of the choice of natures, he happens to be a super-smart person. Not much else. Aggie is super smart also, shrewd enough to be at the helm of a company with obvious great resources and funding .. She could not have known that her research applications would be used in war .. Yet, when some people, quite intent of dooming the entire Human race (!!!) are themselves slaughtered using her technologies, she has fits...

Yet this remains a great show...We cannot expect any show to be perfect at the outset. Series have that advantage that they can correct their trajectories. in mid-flight, and I expect this one to correct its few issues.
As it is, it remains a superb show. I'm wafting for season 2, with my fingers crossed, this is after all Netflix. They can axe it, regardless...of viewers or critics positive reactions, they've done it in the past.


Peace.

 

[tmtomh]

The unorganic part is this cast was constructed to fit a list. Again I wouldn't care who was in which part. If they had some actors in mind who fit the part and get whoever fits okay. That didn't happen here. They had a list to check off and filtered the casting through that list. So if you have 10 characters of unknowable characteristics it shows if you have one of each on your matrix of intersectionality.

This criticism is particularly absurd given that the show relocates the book’s main present day action from China to the UK. Whitewashing would be more of a valid criticism than the argument you’re making here (though to be clear I’m not making that criticism, and Cixin Liu gave his blessing to this locational change).

The story is supposed to be a global one about humanity’s encounter with the “dark forest” of intelligent life in the universe, and so it makes perfect artistic sense to have a cast that reflects a decently wide swath of the human family. But you only see DEI box-checking and simply assume that the artistic standard has been compromised by it (based on your evidence-free assertion that they didn’t pick the best actors for the characters).

The location has been moved from a country where 95% of the people are of a single ethnicity to one of the most globally diverse cities on the planet. If you don’t like the ethnic diversity of the cast then don’t travel to London. But that’s got nothing to do with the artistic integrity of the show.

 

[Blumlein 88]

This criticism is particularly absurd given that the show relocates the book’s main present day action from China to the UK. Whitewashing would be more of a valid criticism than the argument you’re making here (though to be clear I’m not making that criticism, and Cixin Liu gave his blessing to this locational change).

The story is supposed to be a global one about humanity’s encounter with the “dark forest” of intelligent life in the universe, and so it makes perfect artistic sense to have a cast that reflects a decently wide swath of the human family. But you only see DEI box-checking and simply assume that the artistic standard has been compromised by it (based on your evidence-free assertion that they didn’t pick the best actors for the characters).

The location has been moved from a country where 95% of the people are of a single ethnicity to one of the most globally diverse cities on the planet. If you don’t like the ethnic diversity of the cast then don’t travel to London. But that’s got nothing to do with the artistic integrity of the show.

I won't argue this much as it will become political. As mentioned by another post in this thread, in California you get tax credits for intersectional casting. There is a detailed list of criteria. I don't think it was in effect when this was filmed. Check into the SAG/AFTRA forms everyone fills out now to be listed with them for work. If somehow you've missed it look at the long list of criteria for a production to be eligible for an Oscar or a Golden Globe award. I don't mind that the cast is not all Chinese or all British, but one cannot help seeing it was, "lets check all these boxes." It pervades that industry. If you don't care fine. If I do care fine. The main issue to me is some fine actors are in it and some don't seem too great. When you artificially restrict your pool of eligible actors by all these categories I think it impacts who gets a part on something other than acting talent or fit for a part. Or maybe it was just lousy casting.

A show that had different types of people in it I liked was Westworld (well the 1st season anyway, and most of the 2nd). Everyone they cast fit and were great. However I never even noticed or had the feeling that the choices were to make sure every single box was checked off.

Now I do care about historical shows casting impossible race or gender swapped actors. Saw where there were complaints that Shogun doesn't have any black actors in it. Maybe you'll love it if they remake it with a diverse cast for modern audiences.

 

[Sokel]

Why all this rant about the distribution?
Book was probably the base but just that,nothing more.

The only out-of-place character I saw was the "cult" leader as he is not filling the profile of such people.
Everyone else could be anything,black,white,yellow of fuchsia (ok,fuchsia are rare) since it doesn't follow the book closely.

All I care is acting and I was glad to see couple of promising ones.

 

[AdrianusG]

Hi

Watching this new series on Netflix. Trying hard not to binge watch, something I don't usually do. I read the book a while back and don't remember it very well.... I find the show very, very , very good... even superb, yet, the reviews are .. well ... not that enthusiastic.. It seems that the Show/Series/Movies must stick to the book to be deemed good... This series doesn't, but stands on its own and is a must watch... So far at episode 5, I looove it..

What do you think People!

Peace

Not watching it yet, (plan to soon!) but just reading the first book now
@chapter 31 currently.

 

[anmpr1]

To compare, one can check out the 3 Body series produced by Tencent probably a year or so ago. It's likely available on one of the streaming services, if you search around. What was IMO interesting about the Chinese sourced version is that it is one of the few mainland shows I've viewed that directly broaches some rather sensitive goings on during the Cultural Revolution era, from a political angle.

As far as plot? I'm no sci-fi fan, but I'm sure it's no more goofy than most sci-fi. Or popular drama in general. For sure you have to suspend disbelief in order to make it work, but you pretty much have to do that with all drama. Maybe not something like Ibsen's Doll House, but 3 Body is no more outrageous in the disbelief department than, say, Titus Andronicus. Might not be as exciting as Titus.

 

[DavidL]

Why does the race or gender of the individual cast members matter to anybody?

 

[Axo1989]

I won't argue this much as it will become political. As mentioned by another post in this thread, in California you get tax credits for intersectional casting. There is a detailed list of criteria. I don't think it was in effect when this was filmed. Check into the SAG/AFTRA forms everyone fills out now to be listed with them for work. If somehow you've missed it look at the long list of criteria for a production to be eligible for an Oscar or a Golden Globe award. I don't mind that the cast is not all Chinese or all British, but one cannot help seeing it was, "lets check all these boxes." It pervades that industry. If you don't care fine. If I do care fine. The main issue to me is some fine actors are in it and some don't seem too great. When you artificially restrict your pool of eligible actors by all these categories I think it impacts who gets a part on something other than acting talent or fit for a part. Or maybe it was just lousy casting.

A show that had different types of people in it I liked was Westworld (well the 1st season anyway, and most of the 2nd). Everyone they cast fit and were great. However I never even noticed or had the feeling that the choices were to make sure every single box was checked off.

Now I do care about historical shows casting impossible race or gender swapped actors. Saw where there were complaints that Shogun doesn't have any black actors in it. Maybe you'll love it if they remake it with a diverse cast for modern audiences.

You are certainly making a political argument when you assert that "artificially restricting your pool of eligible actors" degrades quality due to a "matrix of intersectionality". Or that "different types of people" can be ok as long as you like it for some semi-arbitrary reason (which is exceedingly generous of you, if you'll excuse a little sarcasm). It's an explicit argument against (alleged) diversity policies and an inherently political discussion that you've advanced via a series of posts already. I don't know why you think that's a good discussion to start here. I'd make the argument somewhere else.