Shogun

[Jimbob54]

So they are using anamorphic lenses. These Hawk, and Alex Arris lenses have become popular apparently for the way to provide this blur and bokeh on backgrounds. I think in some scenes they have gone too far in Shogun. The edges can be quite out of focus. The subtitles are sharp over the blur so it is in the way they shot it. I also don't see the point in some shots. Like a far overhead shot that zooms in, but never really gets close to the outside of the Osaka castle. I thought a set was shot with a drone or maybe it is all CGI, and the blur is to hide that, but it is obvious and a bit distracting.

Shōgun (TV Mini Series 2024) - Technical specifications - IMDb

Shōgun (TV Mini Series 2024) - Movies, TV, Celebs, and more...

www.imdb.com

• Aspect ratio
  • 2.00 : 1
  
  
• Camera
  • Arri Alexa LF, Hawk class-X, V-Lite and Vantage One Lenses
  • Arri Alexa Mini LF, Hawk class-X, V-Lite and Vantage One Lenses
  • Panasonic AG-DVX100
  • Sony CineAlta Venice, Hawk class-X, V-Lite and Vantage One Lenses
  
  
• Negative Format
  • AXSM(4K)
  • Codex ARRIRAW(4.5K)
  
  
• Cinematographic Process
  • Digital Intermediate(4K, master format)
  • Hawk Scope(anamorphic, source format)
• Printed Film Format
  • Video(UHD)

Explains why I thought some scenes with faces at the edge of the screen were making me squint. They were!

 

[Blumlein 88]

Today I learned about anamorphic lenses.

I noticed the strange look of some of the scenes and to me it looked like they had corrected lens barrel leaving a kind of ghost of a circular feel to the bokeh. Whenever I’d pause to take a closer look, it wasn’t there.

I can see it when I pause. Bokeh with movement does look different, but in some of the worst scenes, I can pause it, subtitles at the bottom are quite sharp, but the background is not. It isn't circular exactly.

 

[DWPress]

We've been thoroughly enjoying the series. I don't watch much current TV or TV series stuff so it was actually refreshing to discover I'd have to wait a week before the next episode - took me back a few years. Looking forward to Tuesday nights.

My partner lived in Japan in several of those regions and speaks fluent Japanese. She is very impressed with the choice to go with the archaic language style and all the other details. All the extra content they have available to stream is really good and informative too.

 

[kemmler3D]

We've been thoroughly enjoying the series. I don't watch much current TV or TV series stuff so it was actually refreshing to discover I'd have to wait a week before the next episode - took me back a few years. Looking forward to Tuesday nights.

My partner lived in Japan in several of those regions and speaks fluent Japanese. She is very impressed with the choice to go with the archaic language style and all the other details. All the extra content they have available to stream is really good and informative too.

I know about 10 words of Japanese (just enough to get around Tokyo with heavy reliance on Google Translate and such) but some of the changes to language are still even obvious to me. I think it shows how strong the production values are - even though this show is ostensibly for a US audience (I assume?) they still went to the extent of using old-timey Japanese.

The show has been pretty consistently solid IMO. It's got the complexity, grit and internecine intrigue of a Game of Thrones with the benefit of being very realistic instead of some silly dragons-and-wizards thing. Nothing wrong with the fantasy genre, but sometimes it's nice to not have to suspend disbelief about everything all the time.

Example: One character in the show has leprosy. In GoT they have, whatever that grey disease was, which was clearly meant to play the role of leprosy in that universe. Why not just call it what it was? Why does everything have to be given a funny name as if we were all The Little Mermaid?

 

[stoo23]

Working with and choosing Anamorphic lenses, has a whole heap of visual and technical requirements and considerations to the point where one could even possibly suggest the 'appearance' of a final Scene, may Not be exactly as the DP may have wanted it (but may be too expensive or impossible to re-shoot ).

Some possibly useful 'links' here, if you are interested cheers
Anamorphic format (Wikipedia)
The Pitfalls of Anamorphic
Anamorphic Lens: Everything You Need To Know
UNDERSTANDING ANAMORPHIC LENSES (Red Cameras)

 

[Blumlein 88]

Working with and choosing Anamorphic lenses, has a whole heap of visual and technical requirements and considerations to the point where one could even possibly suggest the 'appearance' of a final Scene, may Not be exactly as the DP may have wanted it (but may be too expensive or impossible to re-shoot ).

Some possibly useful 'links' here, if you are interested cheers
Anamorphic format (Wikipedia)
The Pitfalls of Anamorphic
Anamorphic Lens: Everything You Need To Know
UNDERSTANDING ANAMORPHIC LENSES (Red Cameras)

Enjoying the show, but I think they went too far with the anamorphic lens use. A bit distracting sometimes.

 

[Zim]

Enjoying the show, but I think they went too far with the anamorphic lens use. A bit distracting sometimes.

To be honest, I appreciate their use of anamorphic lenses and felt that the series wouldn't have been as visually charming. Anamorphic lenses do give an "old-timey cinema" look with its imperfections and characteristics that you can't really do with spherical lenses. Link below is probably the best explanation of when, why, and how it's used besides the whole Abrams' flare disaster.

 

[Blumlein 88]

To be honest, I appreciate their use of anamorphic lenses and felt that the series wouldn't have been as visually charming. Anamorphic lenses do give an "old-timey cinema" look with its imperfections and characteristics that you can't really do with spherical lenses. Link below is probably the best explanation of when, why, and how it's used besides the whole Abrams' flare disaster.

The video is a good concise explanation. I get it anyway. I think in the case of Shogun it was a bit over done. Different focal lengths with those lenses could have done the same thing and been better. There is enough distortion particularly along top and bottom edges it is a distraction. Not just the back ground and edges are softened the middle looks positively out of focus right next to the subject which is what I find distracting just above and below. Seems a bit more below in every scene. I even wonder how much of fixing the anamorphic squeezing was done digitally. I might think all of it is today. In which case maybe some different processing could have made it less distracting. BTW, anyone remember Anamorphic DVDs?

BTW, you can find forums and reddit threads where there is quite a bit of discussion on Shogun and its overly out of focus quality. It has more than is the norm, and some others don't like it also saying it was overdone.

 

[DWPress]

I'm just back from a trip and got to indulge in the 2 most recent episodes. Best bit of TV I've seen in a long time and I'll be sorry for it to end.

I don't find the video distracting but I don't have an OLED, just a relatively new 58" 4K.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Why ‘Shogun’ (and the Rest of TV) Is Slightly Out of Focus

If you’ve been puzzled by some blurry backgrounds and darkened edges on your screen while watching your favorite prestige TV shows, you’re not alone. No need to check your TV settings, though: It’s intentional.

www.theringer.com

 

[TonyJZX]

Hiroyuki Sanada

you son of bitch i'm in

show concludes 1st season in about 10 days so..

 

[Smitty2k1]

Hiroyuki Sanada

you son of bitch i'm in

show concludes 1st season in about 10 days so..

Show concludes in totality. I don't believe there are going to be more seasons?

 

[FrantzM]

One of the best shows on TV.. IMO.... ever.

Peace.

 

[Zim]

Why ‘Shogun’ (and the Rest of TV) Is Slightly Out of Focus

If you’ve been puzzled by some blurry backgrounds and darkened edges on your screen while watching your favorite prestige TV shows, you’re not alone. No need to check your TV settings, though: It’s intentional.

www.theringer.com

Thanks for linking that. I guess I'm coming from it as a fellow visual worker (I'm a photographer by trade) whereby, I too, like the director and cinematographer, are absolutely jaded by the precision and "cleanliness" of modern cameras that the imperfections of older equipment excites me, especially if there is an intent for the effect/imperfection more than for visual reasons.

 

[DWPress]

I don't believe there are going to be more seasons?

From what I remember of the book, most likely not.

 

[TonyJZX]

yea 3 eps in and i think this one is a stunner

googling says there was a Richard Chamberlain original of this which sparks a vague memory of decades gone on an old CRT and VHS

this one is very subtitle heavy at least at the start but i really do love Sanada in anything he does

 

[MRC01]

The discussion about anamorphic lenses and various artifacts like vignetting & bokeh is interesting. The distortion is not realistic, but it can be artistic if it is done carefully. This relates to audio recordings too. Even with classical music, which is generally recorded with great care and minimal processing, not every recording strives to sound like a live musical event. They can mic it near, far, or any range of balance between the two, different kinds of stereo image with varying amounts of width, depth, and consistency, tilt the tonal balance dark or bright from "neutral", apply varying levels of dynamic compression, etc. As long as it is all done tastefully and carefully with a light hand, it can serve the music artistically.

That said, I tend to prefer the most realistic sounding recordings. Use a top quality neutral mic and give me the raw mic feed, please! But I am becoming less militant about it in recent years, so long as the processing is done with taste & care. Same with picture quality, anamorphic lenses, and other camera techniques.

PS: Shogun is one of the best shows on television/streaming/etc.

 

[Bleib]

No more seasons, this will conclude the Shogun chapter. I think they should have made 15 episodes but then again they don't know if it is a success or not.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Thanks for linking that. I guess I'm coming from it as a fellow visual worker (I'm a photographer by trade) whereby, I too, like the director and cinematographer, are absolutely jaded by the precision and "cleanliness" of modern cameras that the imperfections of older equipment excites me, especially if there is an intent for the effect/imperfection more than for visual reasons.

Again I'm not against it. I watched Sleeping Dogs, an okay movie. They used those lenses. However, I didn't notice until halfway through it and might have noticed not at all had I not been thinking of Shogun. That is a good artistic use. It had its effect, it wasn't pervasive in every single scene, and the viewer won't realize the difference as a distraction. I think there is some truth that having to follow subtitles that are sharp down in the blurry zone make it more noticeable.

I've even seen a reddit thread where one of the guys claims he was on the film crew for Shogun. In his opinion, while he loves the technique he thought it was too much. He said much of it was the insistence in many scenes of using only natural light requiring the largest aperture. His opinion was in some of those a bit of careful artificial light with a smaller aperture would have been a better choice.

Nevertheless Shogun is the best thing on TV in quite a while. My real complaint is it wasn't a 15 or 16 episode season.

 

[BrooklynNick]

Example: One character in the show has leprosy. In GoT they have, whatever that grey disease was, which was clearly meant to play the role of leprosy in that universe. Why not just call it what it was? Why does everything have to be given a funny name as if we were all The Little Mermaid?

That comes from the books, of course. It was not an effort to make leprosy funny or to dumb it down. There is very little in those books that is appropriate for children. Rather, it serves two purposes. For one, it is part of Martin's world building. He skillfully creates a fantasy world where on the one hand people and their motivations are very familiar, yet overall it is clearly not our world. Secondly, it lets him avoid all the people who would complain if he got the symptoms/effects of leprosy wrong. It frees him to describe it any way he pleases.