Tekton M-Lore Speaker Review

[voodooless]

The Mini Lore is a passive 6 component crossover (two resistors) 94dB sensitivity

Another thing here: given this, it’s probably a 2nd order filter and an L-pad. Given that the silk dome is about 94dB sensitive, it would not need an L-pad if the whole speaker is 94dB sensitive. There may be a few other configurations that could be made with 6 components, but when resistors come in, it’s usually to lower levels.

 

[amirm]

That's nice. However according to the company note you shared above the reference point is 6.5 *feet* above the tweeter. Better measure again before you are sued.

Maybe you are supposed to saw off the woofer and mount it that high. We have to wait for the youtube video to show how that is done.

 

[Snickers-is]

Sigh: Continue to get messages from Eric like this:

"Amir,

I see you've actively correcting your mistakes. The correct measurement point is exactly 6.5' above the tweeter so please make this correction and publish it.

You're lying to your audience about the "angle being too small to make a difference in far field listening". Remove it! If you fail to do this I will publish a measurement and a new video proving that you are telling lies."

He also shared this with me (yes, it is a fuzzy 6k byte file that he sent it to me):
View attachment 363065

With the text of: "Next, see the attached image. The Mini Lore is a passive 6 component crossover (two resistors) 94dB sensitivity 8" 2-way loudspeaker with a "showroom" voicing [using your words here]. I'd love to see you do better with less."

You all see what I have been dealing for a month now?

It kind of reminds me of the response curve of the Eminence Alpha 8A

Funny how 92,5dB before baffle step compensation becomes 95 after, instead of the more typical 86-87 one would get using the law of physics.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

That's nice. However according to the company note you shared above the reference point is 6.5 *feet* above the tweeter. Better measure again before you are sued.

Mixing up feet and inches? It’s “Stonehenge” all over again

 

[DLS79]

Here we go, I found a calculator (so i don't have to derive it myself from the law of cosines) anyone can use it to see what the angular difference is.

Calculation of the SAS triangle 6.5 90 118.11

6.5 118.11 118.289 - Right scalene triangle, area=383.86. Computed angles, perimeter, medians, heights, centroid, inradius and other properties of this triangle.

www.triangle-calculator.com

At 3 meters a 6.5" axis shift is only a 3.15° angular difference.

If any speaker sounds significantly different at a 3.15° offset, something is seriously wrong with it.

 

[voodooless]

Funny how 92,5dB before baffle step compensation becomes 95 after,

This was measured IB (infinite baffle), so no baffle step in this data.

 

[tmtomh]

He must because of the comment about "showroom sound" which that graph clearly shows with elevated treble.

That was my first thought too - the image he sent you was so blurry I didn't bother looking at the X and Y-axis labels, so I immediately focused in on the elevated response in what looked to be the lower to mid treble region and thought, "yep - showroom sound for sure."

But then when I saw the higher-res versions of the same response curve when we learned it's just the woofer, I saw the clear X and Y-axis labels and realized that could never be the speaker's actual response, unless it was designed specially for the 5-20kHz high-frequency capabilities of AM radio.

I guess it's possible in the heat of the moment he just found/saw that measurement in his digital files and at a glance thought it was an M-Lore measurement - and if so, that's quite telling because how do you look at that response curve as the designer of the "extremely linear" speaker and decide, "yeah, this proves my point and helps my argument"?

 

[thewas]

FWIW, in his video Mr. Alexander states that Tektron has sold "multiple six figures" of speakers. With my math that's 200,000 or more. So in the range of a quarter million.

Do I believe this? Personally, I do not. Unless perhaps he is counting the # of drivers he has sold and intentionally implying its the # of cabinets . . . which given the nature of his designs, may mean 20,000 speakers sold in 18 years. Even that number seems intuitively implausible to me, but its not inconceivable.

I don't know how it is in the US but in other countries such bold claims can become also interesting to the tax office as you can imagine the corresponding value of tax.
On the other hand I don't believe even much more (internationally) known hifi loudspeakers companies like Revel have even come close to such sales numbers, seeing his videos I doubt he can even produce more than a dozen per working day.

 

[tomtoo]

He must because of the comment about "showroom sound" which that graph clearly shows with elevated treble.

At 4.5 khz.

 

[Snickers-is]

Here we go, I found a calculator (so i don't have to derive it myself from the law of cosines) anyone can use it to see what the angular difference is.

Calculation of the SAS triangle 6.5 90 118.11

6.5 118.11 118.289 - Right scalene triangle, area=383.86. Computed angles, perimeter, medians, heights, centroid, inradius and other properties of this triangle.

www.triangle-calculator.com

At 3 meters a 6.5" axis shift is only a 3.15° angular difference.

If any speaker sounds significantly different at a 3.15° offset, something is seriously wrong with it.

At this point, the discussion is narrowed down to 1,5 inches. If we compare the relative distance to each driver with a listening distance of 2,5 meters to a 1 meter measurement you need to move down quite a bit to get the same relative distance. Simply put, the crossover axis is not the same as the individual driver axis' of a speaker.

So suggesting running the measurement at 6,5 inches above the tweeter of that is also the listening height is off course not something an experienced speaker designer would ever think of doing... Right?

 

[tmtomh]

Here we go, I found a calculator (so i don't have to derive it myself from the law of cosines) anyone can use it to see what the angular difference is.

Calculation of the SAS triangle 6.5 90 118.11

6.5 118.11 118.289 - Right scalene triangle, area=383.86. Computed angles, perimeter, medians, heights, centroid, inradius and other properties of this triangle.

www.triangle-calculator.com

At 3 meters a 6.5" axis shift is only a 3.15° angular difference.

If any speaker sounds significantly different at a 3.15° offset, something is seriously wrong with it.

Especially since the M-Lore is "extremely linear" in its response according to Tekton.

It seems the accuracy of Eric Alexander's understanding of what "linear" means is similar to the accuracy of his understanding of what "litigation" means.

 

[olieb]

Funny how 92,5dB before baffle step compensation becomes 95 after, instead of the more typical 86-87 one would get using the law of physics.

Physics? That's a form of science, isn't it? Real audiophiles don't like that, don't know that and so they have no use for that.

This was measured IB (infinite baffle), so no baffle step in this data.

That was @Snickers-is' point.

 

[voodooless]

That was @Snickers-is' point.

Was it? I thought he was referring to the graphs lower end response vs the higher frequency end. The rise that is seen there is just the natural breakup of the woofer (though fairly well damped), not a baffle step. Maybe @Snickers-is can elaborate?

Edit: he just did below. Thanks

 

[Snickers-is]

This was measured IB (infinite baffle), so no baffle step in this data.

Sure, that's my point. The finished speaker would loose close to 6dB over a certain range and the crossover has to compensate for that by reducing the output in the rest of the spectrum.

 

[thewas]

Hard to fathom a speaker designer believing his cabinet will produce a sonic boom (?) and not mentioning it to reviewers until after they do the review.

I'm actually not sure - if airflow was actually supersonic in a small tube, what WOULD it sound like? If you had oscillating supersonic motion, wouldn't it make an absolutely tremendous roaring noise?

This has the advantage that the sonic boom gives a special kick to the bass played by John Clayton but the disadvantage that you first see the little loudspeaker feet skyrocketing towards you and then hear such which can be dangerous.

 

[Ze Frog]

He must because of the comment about "showroom sound" which that graph clearly shows with elevated treble.

What I don't understand, is he's saying it voiced for "showroom sound", then why not as soon as review went live say that it isn't designed to be linear/flat and was designed for enjoyment from a purely listening perspective! That would have been something that really nobody could critique as it would be a product that is awknoleged sounds a specific way to appeal to a certain group of listener's which would have been entirely fair game. Then, if he wanted to appeal to the measurements crowd he could have sent in an entirely neutral speaker and won with both types of potential buyers.

That's what I would have done anyway, makes no sense for claiming one particular product appeals to both sides of the spectrum by being linear and flat yet voiced to a specific sound.

 

[mlsstl]

While I've been following this thread this afternoon, I've been sitting here also following four hours of an online web seminar for professional Continuing Education concerning "Bad Faith" claims.

Seems appropriate.

 

[voodooless]

then why not as soon as review went live say that it isn't designed to be linear/flat and was designed for enjoyment from a purely listening perspective!

That would have been in conflict with the marketing material though.

 

[nvidia_7]

A few things are becoming strikingly clear:

1). Eric seems to have a personality disorder which is going to make this process much more difficult than it needs to be. Not trying to insult or be mean, its just something i've observed in watching his other youtube videos and his interactions with people. He talks very highly of himself, claims he knows better than anyone else, and takes criticism extremely harsh. Narcissism is definitely at play here, and the only way to come to an agreement with a narcissist is to agree with them entirely, no compromises. They will always be right. This is important to take into consideration as this whole process unfolds.

2). He doesn't seem to have any meaningful data on his own speakers, other than raw driver measurements that were in-fact not taken by him. Is Eminence okay with Eric passing off their data as his own? They could litigate (sarcasm).

3). I am not sure he really understands audio science. He seems to have a "sound is art" approach to audio, when in fact sound is entirely quantifiable and measurable. Whether some like it or not, you can definitely know how a speaker will sound without listening to it, purely by viewing measurements from something like the Klippel NFS. The key here is that you have to know how to read and interpret the data. While yes some may prefer to have non-linear speakers, the vast majority will appreciate a speaker with very close to a linear sound profile and other attributes like good horizontal and vertical contour plots. The people viewing measurements and making purchasing decisions are definitely not the "sound is art" crowd. There are speakers that cost tens of thousands of dollars that give you snake oil, and then are speakers that cost tens of thousands of dollars that give you solid audio science, ie KEF and Revel.

There is an interesting parallel here with Ascend Acoustics. They had some older, very popular, speakers tested and the subsequent measurements published. They took the criticisms from that and said "we will make it better". And they did, and now their improved V2 measurements were recently released by Amir and look at them, just fantastic. No threats to litigate, no insults being thrown to reviewers and consumers. There is a right way and a wrong way to handle criticism from the community that you intend to sell a product too. I have to wonder, was it Amirs measurements that affected Erics sales numbers, or was it his response to those measurements...

 

[Ze Frog]

Another thing here: given this, it’s probably a 2nd order filter and an L-pad. Given that the silk dome is about 94dB sensitive, it would not need an L-pad if the whole speaker is 94dB sensitive. There may be a few other configurations that could be made with 6 components, but when resistors come in, it’s usually to lower levels.

In fairness, because the tweeter's above and below are at reduced levels by design there could well be truth in that part. Granted he's not helping his case, imagine putting up raw driver measurements from manafacturer.