Can anyone explain the vinyl renaissance?

[Victor Martell]

I hate film grain and other crap like that. In games and in movies. Especially when it has been added on purpose to be "artistic". Give me a clear picture like I see in the real world.

Why would anyone think making the on screen image worse was a good idea? Chromatic aberration? BS. Rain splashing on my screen? BS.

Guide to the Most Common Logical Fallacies

Logical fallacies are flaws in reasoning that weaken or invalidate an argument. Whether they’re used intentionally or unintentionally, they can be quite

thinkingispower.com

 

[Jaxjax]

But loving music in no way equals to not giving a crap about the gear you play it with.

I don't understand this... You really believe this .? I've never met any music lover that truly gave a crap about the gear it's played thru unless there like me & that is far & few between. I gotta be just not getting it...My wife loves music & travels all over the country for live acts.. actualy been all the world doing it & she truly prefers the $100 jbl tubes we have...or her car stereo, etc, sitting in a listening position is not for most everybody.

 

[levimax]

Gear vs music is like cooking and eating for me. I enjoy both of them, I can enjoy them separately but I get the most enjoyment from the combination.... except of course for good live music which is the best and a completely different thing than enjoying recorded music.

 

[Jaxjax]

Give me a clear picture like I see in the real world.

Not much of that in digital camera land....
99.9999% of all pro shot digital is so stomped on in post it's crazy...
& definitely not what you see in the real world

 

[pablolie]

I don't understand this... You really believe this .? I've never met any music lover that truly gave a crap about the gear it's played thru unless there like me & that is far & few between. I gotta be just not getting it...My wife loves music & travels all over the country for live acts.. actualy been all the world doing it & she truly prefers the $100 jbl tubes we have...or her car stereo, etc, sitting in a listening position is not for most everybody.

Not sure why you are replying to my message with that. I think what I said is exactly what you talk about. Your wife's preferences are her own and yet again, correlation is never causation.

My point remains people's love for music in no way ever dictates the way they want to consume it. I in no way ever stated you have to be an equipment lover to be a music lover - in fact my point was the contrary all along. You can whistle your fav song in the shower. You can play it on vinyl. You can play it through a 7 figure system. I could not care less. My point was love for music does not mandate how you consume it.

 

[pablolie]

Not much of that in digital camera land....
99.9999% of all pro shot digital is so stomped on in post it's crazy...
& definitely not what you see in the real world

I don't think there is an equivalence between photography and the audio hobby.

Being an audiophile is never an "art". You don't create anything with equipment, you consume art (music) in a way that you enjoy.

Photography is not a passive consumption act. Photography is about the active act of creation, in ways others may like or dislike, but it is not about sitting back and looking at photos. It is about *taking* photos and perhaps editing them. For others to consume.

Creation and consumption are never ever the same.

 

[pablolie]

...
1. Someone who loves music, but just listens to music via streaming.
2. Someone who loves music, but buys much of their music on vinyl because they ALSO enjoy the non-music features of records: the artwork, physical object, collecting, turntables etc.
3. Someone who loves music, but buys much of their music on vinyl, and who likes the aesthetics, physicality, collecting, turntables in part BECAUSE those seem to increase their music listening experiences.

There are way more permutations than that. They all like music, great. I have never once dictated how people should listen to music.

We've all had off-gear conversations (I've had music discussions too and other things). But that is not what brings most of us here: we are enthusiastic about audio gear.
I've seen you engage in enough such discussions to know you are interested in audio gear far beyond the average "non-audiophile."

I just don't find any issue with admitting to being interested in the gear as well as the music.

I participate on gear discussions briefly, and typically to question extremes. If you look at my track record, I just question those with irrational claims as much as those over-rational that claim 1dB over a limited range makes for a completely different listening experience. Both are victims of their extended psychoacoustic belief systems without any true factual evidence to back their instinctive claims of superiority.

... He could make the exact case you could for your system. That every single choice he made in his system was serving the purpose of listening to the music. But the thing is, once you become fascinated with how audio gear affects the presentation - whether you are seeking accuracy or colorations you like - and if this becomes a hobby of sorts to keep interested in audio gear, trying various stuff over the years and/or participating in audio gear forums discussing the performance of audio gear...you really are interested in more than Just The Music. Seeking "accuracy" doesn't change this dynamic - it's still about being interested in how audio gear performance affects the music presentation, making your own preference - eg. a more accurate piece of gear vs perhaps a more colored piece of gear - and continuing to have a fascination with the gear, on audio gear forums like this.

I disagree with this latter part. Seeking accuracy in absolutely no way indicates you're shifting gears to loving gear more than music.

 

[Newman]

...I disagree with this latter part. Seeking accuracy in absolutely no way indicates you're shifting gears to loving gear more than music.

Quite right. I don't see why several people are struggling to grasp this simple fact. Unless it's actually classic over-reach by people who want to misrepresent the views of others.

 

[Newman]

" . . . Yes, vinyl sales are at their “highest level” since then, but 1990 was far from a golden age for vinyl sales in the UK. In fact, in 1990, vinyl sales were rapidly going down the toilet.

Looking at the BPI’s own numbers from 1990, a total of 150.7 million albums were shipped in the UK that year. Vinyl, with “trade deliveries” (not sales) of 24.7 million, was, by some distance, the poor relation format. It made up just 16.4% of the total market. This was quite far behind the CD (50.9 million units, equalling 33.7% of the market). And miles behind the cassette (75.1 million units, equalling 49.8% of the market).

1990 was hardly a marquee year for vinyl sales. Those trade deliveries of 24.7 million were down from 37.9 million units in 1989 which were down from 50.2 million in 1988. For proper context, this was a vertiginous plummet from the 91.6 million units reported in 1975.

Vinyl’s market decommissioning accelerated rapidly after 1990, halving to 12.9 million units in 1991 and halving again to 6.7 million units in 1992.

Saying “vinyl sales are at their highest level since the format was properly in its death rattle phase” does not have the same heartwarming ring to it . . ."

More:

Putting the ‘vinyl revival’ in proper perspective - Music Business Worldwide

The following op/ed comes from long-time music industry journalist…

www.musicbusinessworldwide.com

You must have been on-the-ball to beat Matt to referencing this article....although one has to consider that he might have chosen to 'overlook' it for not making vinyl look rosier than it really is.

Some more proper perspectives from the article, as per its title:-

"...arriving like clockwork every January dressed like the naked emperor in the invisible ermine of a “feel-good” story, is the repetitious news of the “vinyl revival” that, for a business not shy about exaggeration and self-aggrandisement, really takes the biscuit."

"It is hard to keep count, but this must now be the vinyl re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-re-revival."

"...all sense of perspective has been badly lost here in the race to proffer a positive story with which to kick off the new year."

"...the dirty secret – a dirty secret that is also signing the format’s potential death warrant – of this vinyl “revival”. Vinyl pricing is utterly out of control and consumers are being roughly upended as all the money is shaken out of their pockets."

"...the steadily ascending retail price of LPs is “constantly and industrially taking the piss”."

"Pricing is being pushed to breaking point."

"This so-called “revival” is really a commercial shakedown of the fan."

"...the vinyl “revival” (apologies for always archly curling inverted commas around the word, but this is the only way to properly deal with it)"

"...a handful of megastars are drastically skewing the results."

"...often using multiple vinyl variants to drive high first-week sales – badly skews the results."

"It is like looking at the blockbusting gross from Taylor Swift’s Eras tour, over $1 billion and counting, and proclaiming that it is driving a revival in grassroots venues."

"...almost every major act (is) creating a multitude of colour and picture disc versions of albums aimed squarely at their fanbase. A few major acts getting fans to buy the same album multiple times does not constitute a “boom” for the vinyl format. It only constitutes a boom in their personal wealth."

"Sales are growing and that’s clearly lovely. But that growth is marginal and it needs to be understood within its proper context, not devoid of context. Because stripping things of their context to propagate a particular and highly conditional worldview is little more than propaganda."

Hear bloody Hear!

It is hard to resist the impression that he is saying that to partake in the, um, re-(16X)-revival, is to willingly be the sucker in a con-artist's game. Being held upside down while the money is shaken out of one's pockets.

cheers

 

[MattHooper]

I disagree with this latter part. Seeking accuracy in absolutely no way indicates you're shifting gears to loving gear more than music.

Thats not what I said. In fact that’s just about the opposite of what I said. Remember: I already agreed with you on this.

Enjoying music AND being interested in audio gear doesn’t mean liking one to the exclusion of the other. It’s not some zero sum game.

So I’m not sure what you are really disagreeing with.

 

[Robin L]

You must have been on-the-ball to beat Matt to referencing this article....although one has to consider that he might have chosen to 'overlook' it for not making vinyl look rosier than it really is.

It showed up on my "Google News" feed, just had to look. What I notice, in particular, is the huge discrepancy between the prices of CDs and LPs, with LPs being, on average, 3 times more expensive. Of course, the music I listen to is pretty much being ignored anyway, so it's used titles for me all the way.

 

[pablolie]

Thats not what I said. In fact that’s just about the opposite of what I said. Remember: I already agreed with you on this.

Enjoying music AND being interested in audio gear doesn’t mean liking one to the exclusion of the other. It’s not some zero sum game.

So I’m not sure what you are really disagreeing with.

Just clarifying my point, and glad we are agreeing!

 

[Jaxjax]

I don't think there is an equivalence between photography and the audio hobby.

Being an audiophile is never an "art". You don't create anything with equipment, you consume art (music) in a way that you enjoy.

Photography is not a passive consumption act. Photography is about the active act of creation, in ways others may like or dislike, but it is not about sitting back and looking at photos. It is about *taking* photos and perhaps editing them. For others to consume.

Creation and consumption are never ever the same.

Fully agree.............

 

[Sal1950]

Gear vs music is like cooking and eating for me. I enjoy both of them, I can enjoy them separately but I get the most enjoyment from the combination.... except of course for good live music which is the best and a completely different thing than enjoying recorded music.

Just serve it to me the way the chef desired it to be consumed.
Don't let some dude sitting next to me throw a bunch of seasonings on it before I get to taste it.

What I notice, in particular, is the huge discrepancy between the prices of CDs and LPs, with LPs being, on average, 3 times more expensive.

3 times more money for 3 times less transparency to the source.

Being an audiophile is never an "art". You don't create anything with equipment, you consume art (music) in a way that you enjoy.

At least it's not supposed to be.
OTOH, many folks totally contaminate the source with various distortion creators like tube gear, specially SET stuff.
But the "voicing" of gear isn't limited to tubes, it goes on in SS gear quite often too.

 

[Jaxjax]

Not sure why you are replying to my message with that. I think what I said is exactly what you talk about. Your wife's preferences are her own and yet again, correlation is never causation.

My point remains people's love for music in no way ever dictates the way they want to consume it. I in no way ever stated you have to be an equipment lover to be a music lover - in fact my point was the contrary all along. You can whistle your fav song in the shower. You can play it on vinyl. You can play it through a 7 figure system. I could not care less. My point was love for music does not mandate how you consume it.

Cool, thought I might have read that wrong. Apologies from me.
Joe

 

[MattHooper]

It showed up on my "Google News" feed, just had to look. What I notice, in particular, is the huge discrepancy between the prices of CDs and LPs, with LPs being, on average, 3 times more expensive. Of course, the music I listen to is pretty much being ignored anyway, so it's used titles for me all the way.

Fun article. Contra Newman, I would have posted it had I seen it. It's good to see a negative story on the phenomenon as well.

That said, there wasn't anything new in there that hasn't already been discussed many times here: Vinyl has gotten damned expensive. Big acts like Taylor Swift are a big force in the sales numbers being what they are. And the vinyl revival has always been relative to vinyl's most moribund state in the 90's, so that's hardly new.' The article seems aimed at the most naive understanding of the phenomenon - Da Hype! - but most here following it at all understand the nuances to some degree or another.

And yet...the numbers are what they are, and wouldn't be what they are if vinyl hadn't come back with the cultural cache it now has. It's why most artists now release on vinyl (as well as other mediums), which would have been unthinkable before the vinyl revival.

One thing I wonder regarding the article:

Vinyl pricing is utterly out of control and consumers are being roughly upended as all the money is shaken out of their pockets.

I was waiting to see the author show how the prices were purely gouging, and not reflective of rising costs of production. But we didn't get that, just an assertion people are being gouged.

There is a fair bit of complaining about vinyl pricing in the vinyl forums now. I sure see the high prices too. But whenever I've looked in to "why is vinyl so expensive" the articles detail all the reasons it's just hard to produce, the very limited facilities pressing vinyl, supply chain problems as well. Of course I don't doubt that record company's wouldn't be dumb enough to kill this modest golden goose by high pricing. But before I assume that's all it is, just pure greed, I'd like to see the actual evidence, some break down in what it really costs to create, market, ship, sell vinyl, to see how the balance shakes out.

 

[MattHooper]

Just serve it to me the way the chef desired it to be consumed.
Don't let some dude sitting next to me throw a bunch of seasonings on it before I get to taste it.

Hey...I don't carry this squirt bottle of ketchup in my jacket for nothing!

 

[Sal1950]

Hey...I don't carry this squirt bottle of ketchup in my jacket for nothing!

Stick out your hand and you'll draw back a stump. LOL

 

[Sal1950]

Now, do you want to claim that you care more about music, or enjoy music more, or are more "all about the music" than a fervent Taylor Swift fan (or any of countless other examples of non-audiophile music lovers)?

Yes I do.
I care more because I've spent a lifetime investing in the best gear I can afford
to hear the music reproduced in it's clearist, most accurate form possible. I believe that's true about a large number of our members. They came here with an interest in how the equipment measures to find the best they can secure, not the ones capable of creating the highest distortion.

Taylor who?

 

[Basic Channel]

Yes I do.
I care more because I've spent a lifetime investing in the best gear I can afford
to hear the music reproduced in it's clearist, most accurate form possible. I believe that's true about a large number of our members. They came here with an interest in how the equipment measures to find the best they can secure, not the ones capable of creating the highest distortion.

Taylor who?

You care about sound, which is part of the music. You could've spent time rather than money learning to play music instruments and it'd give you an added appreciation of other aspects of music.

There are recordings of people making music who had barely any access to electricity, but who showed in the recording how much they cared about music.