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PS Audio sent Erin their speaker??!!
- Thread starter nerdemoji
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Well, normalized to on-axis, it's no worse than the usual non-coax.
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I watched the video - very interesting and informative, as usual.
I was particularly intrigued by how Erin went through the main frequency response dips at 600Hz and 6kHz. When he said that he didn't really notice them in his initial listening but then when he did the measurements and went back and EQ'd them he was able to retroactively notice them, I thought that was quite honest and made a lot of sense.
These speakers wouldn't be my choice, but it seems like they are well-designed overall and that their deficiencies are based on conscious trade-offs. There's no reason we can't acknowledge and enjoy a well-designed, interesting speaker just because it's from a brand whose other products sometimes raise eyebrows.
I was particularly intrigued by how Erin went through the main frequency response dips at 600Hz and 6kHz. When he said that he didn't really notice them in his initial listening but then when he did the measurements and went back and EQ'd them he was able to retroactively notice them, I thought that was quite honest and made a lot of sense.
These speakers wouldn't be my choice, but it seems like they are well-designed overall and that their deficiencies are based on conscious trade-offs. There's no reason we can't acknowledge and enjoy a well-designed, interesting speaker just because it's from a brand whose other products sometimes raise eyebrows.
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Here is also the CE2034 which he had left out in the video review:
The floor and especially ceiling bounce have as expected quite high and wide deviations so should be ideally attenuated.
It is not a disadvantage to have high(er) vertical directivity in typical home listening rooms but what is usually conveniently ignored is that this should be smooth too.
All of this right here - post of the year!!!
It takes balls to do that. Assuming he was honest with his subjective evaluation reporting after seeing the objective measurements.
Dr. Toole has proven that in his research and I believe he goes into this sighted bias in his book as well.
EDIT: I mistakenly read the comment that I am replying to in reverse.
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Seems like a solid overall design. Kind of pricey (notably without a wood finish option) and not a fan of the styling but have seen worse...
Laughed at one of the posted reviews "they sound huge!) - they are huge. The BMR HT tower is about my limit for an unassisted move. One of the benefits of the Purifi woofer is it does not take as much volume to get decent bass. May just be me but will trade 20 coats of hand-rubbed lacquer for better drivers (or lower price) every time.
Laughed at one of the posted reviews "they sound huge!) - they are huge. The BMR HT tower is about my limit for an unassisted move. One of the benefits of the Purifi woofer is it does not take as much volume to get decent bass. May just be me but will trade 20 coats of hand-rubbed lacquer for better drivers (or lower price) every time.
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Vacceo
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Something can be well done even if you don't particularly enjoy it. It is my case, just like yours.
So in all honesty, good speakers but not for me.
As shared by others the verticals are on his site. The vertical response is slightly better than average, imo. More importantly, I just want to make clear the vertical response have pretty much nothing to do with the dips in the spinorama. The LW is bumpy, but the DI curves are smooth, ergo the vertical response isn't having much of an effect on the overall spin.
It might be a good idea for erin to just include other measurements in the video even if he doesn't feel like commenting on them. But he always puts them on his site.
I do want to point out this goes the other way too. Having spent 10 years doing reviews (not just audio), I felt I became increasingly prejudiced against flashy expensive products...
But then you might be aware of that, and try to correct for that bias.
But then you might overcorrect.... and so on and so forth.
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I think next we'll be sending out our bookshelf (aspen FR5) model.
The FR20/30 has a smoother midrange with lower distortion (~0.06% at 90 dB SPL/1 M at 1 kHz), deeper bass extension and woofers with much lower distortion, and higher power handling and output.
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This model is our smaller one (about the size of our Philharmic HT tower), actually 1.5" shorter, .5" narrower but 4" deeper than yours. The FR10 is tuned and plays lower but is quite a bit lower sensitivity (so we've traded off sensitivity for deeper bass extension in a somewhat similar size).Seems like a solid overall design. Kind of pricey (notably without a wood finish option) and not a fan of the styling but have seen worse...
Laughed at one of the posted reviews "they sound huge!) - they are huge. The BMR HT tower is about my limit for an unassisted move. One of the benefits of the Purifi woofer is it does not take as much volume to get decent bass. May just be me but will trade 20 coats of hand-rubbed lacquer for better drivers (or lower price) every time.
Thanks Chris. Yes, I understand the design tradeoffs and the quote I cited is from the FR10 page. I do not have the Philharmonic speaker, so was just using it for relative size (and weight). Given the added volume (and lower sensitivity), would expect that the FR10 goes deeper. If you are familiar with the Philharmonic tower, it is less than half the price (depending on FR10 discounting?). As my comments indicate, am about value. I get it is your baby and is a nice effort but is just not for me.
Wish you well with the FR series and your future endeavors!
It really irrelevant which order this is done in... the measurements are not going to change.
JSmith
I don't really believe he listens without every having seen a measurement (even if a measurement somewhere else before he measures).
In this review he talks about recesses in specific frequency ranges, listening to music.... that magically show up in his measurement.
There is no way someone can pick a small scoop in 500-700 Hz range by listening to music.
But apparently Erin can.
There is no evidence to support your accusations. AFAIK, there aren't posted measurements available for many of the products he reviews.
He spent many years custom tuning car audio systems and building systems up from scratch. Any experienced audio tuner or recording/mixing engineer can easily identify the approximate frequency range of aberrations in the response. I find your post pretty disrespectful and a bit ignorant.
I think Erin has earn some trust with the public, at least some good will.
Also, it would be very ballsy to defraud viewers since many of his viewers are very technical in nature.
I do wish my ears were as trained as his. But anymore training with the Harman How to Listen program, is just plain out torture.
I 1000% trust Erin's measurements. He's great for this hobby.
I skip his subjective because I've seen what I mentioned above happen.
I personally don't think he would be as offended as his fangirls , at my comment....
He is known for his Klippel measurements and fully trusted... he is not known for Golden Ear subjective reviews...
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Trained listener using specific tracks to identify specific issues in frequency response. Can be done.
No need to disrespect people by calling them "fangirls". Discuss audibilty of frequency response deviations... without accusations....
No need to disrespect people by calling them "fangirls". Discuss audibilty of frequency response deviations... without accusations....
Respectfully, this is just not accurate.
Can someone identify every flaw in a speaker from just listening to it? Probably few.
But can you sometimes identify issues during listening when you test dozens of speakers a year using measurements and music you listened to for decades? Of course you can.
In fact, much of Harman's research is predicated on using listeners who can identify flaws this way, because it leads to greater statistical confidence on audible flaws with fewer listeners. They have a course/software specifically built for training people to listen like this, by the way, applying filters of varying sizes at various frequencies.
Welcome to How to Listen!
Overview How to Listen is a desktop software application developed by the Harman Internationa l R&D group for the purpose of training an...
harmanhowtolisten.blogspot.com
More details on the reasoning behind training listeners here:
How to Listen: A Course on How to Critically Evaluate the Quality of Recorded and Reproduced Sound
Next month, I will be giving a one day course on How to Listen at the 2011 ALMA Winter Symposium in Las Vegas,held Jan. 4th and 5th, just...
seanolive.blogspot.com
Give it a try it. You might be surprised at what you'll learn to identify.
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I know a few studio engineers who would vehemently disagree with you.
For years I couldn’t tell the difference between 320kbps files and Lossless till a mate sat me down in his studio and educated me over what to listen out for by cuing up short 10 second loops of tracks and instantly switching between them, then listening over longer loops until finally I could listen to entire tracks and pretty much always choose correctly.
Would I be able to blindly identify a single 320kbps track if it magically popped up in shuffle on roon?, I doubt it unless it was badly encoded but if I heard two tracks back to back I’d like to think I still could identify the 320kbps version.
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