Stereophile and Audio Cables

[rdenney]

1. As I mentioned in my first post, I presume that his technical defence of cables sounding different fall short, but I'm not sharp enough with electrical theory to detail how, myself. So I presented this to, among other things, allow more knowledgeable people here to "call out" exactly why the response was insufficient.

2. I default to assuming JA is giving arguments that he finds plausible. So to the degree he's mistaken, it's still an honest representation of where he stands on the issue.
So as I said, I appreciate JA took a technical approach in his response, and while others feel his being wrong indicates some issue with integrity, I don't necessarily and still have a lot of respect for JA. Even when he may be wrong I think overall he's been a class act. YMMV.

It’s simple. Does the waveform come out of the cable the same as it went in? Except in boundary cases of grossly incorrect designs, yes.

The belief system, however, denies that the waveform we can measure tells the whole story. Yet we can measure it far more finely than we can hear it—to the level of distortions typically 120 dB less powerful than the signal, when we can hear, like, 70, and then only with special techniques and test signals.

The controlled subjective testing we ask for here is merely a way to empirically validate to the non-technical what is already in abundant evidence from engineering analysis.

Rick “JA knows this” Denney

 

[kemmler3D]

My above quote can perhaps shed some light on what is a false "dichotomy" between rationality and emotions. They are all intertwined in a healthy, well function mind - for good, survival reasons. Phineas Gage, mentioned above, was someone who suffered a horrible accident which subtly affected his ability to make good decisions.

Indeed, maybe two false dichotomies in the quotes there - emotion vs. cognition - hard to draw a clean line between those for humans. Also, brain vs. body? Sorry, where does the brain reside, somewhere other than the body? It's interesting that we talk about the brain like a it was a CPU in a dumb computer case. The brain is an organ just like the rest of them, it just so happens that's where most of the thinking takes place.

 

[JaMaSt]

The brain is an organ just like the rest of them, it just so happens that's where most of the thinking takes place.

And its only real "thinking" role is controlling movement of the body.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Somatic marker hypothesis. While I'm not sure Damasio still supports this thesis, there are a lot of interesting current investigations into the issue. He was one of the first in the early 1990's that bravely tackled the issue. [There was still the lingering specter of Behaviorism in Academia at the time, so for this he is to be highly commended]

Patients with frontal lobe damage, such as Phineas Gage, provided the first evidence that the frontal lobes were associated with decision-making. Frontal lobe damage, particularly to the vmPFC, results in impaired abilities to organize and plan behavior and learn from previous mistakes, without affecting intellect in terms of working memory, attention, and language comprehension and expression.[4][5]

When individuals make decisions, they must assess the incentive value of the choices available to them, using cognitive and emotional processes. When the individuals face complex and conflicting choices, they may be unable to decide using only cognitive processes, which may become overloaded. Emotions, consequently, are hypothesized to guide decision-making.

Emotions, as defined by Damasio, are changes in both body and brain states in response to stimuli.[1] Physiological changes (such as muscle tone, heart rate, endocrine activity, posture, facial expression, and so forth) occur in the body and are relayed to the brain where they are transformed into an emotion that tells the individual something about the stimulus that they have encountered. Over time, emotions and their corresponding bodily changes, which are called "somatic markers", become associated with particular situations and their past outcomes.

When making subsequent decisions, these somatic markers and their evoked emotions are consciously or unconsciously associated with their past outcomes, and influence decision-making in favor of some behaviors instead of others.[1] For instance, when a somatic marker associated with a positive outcome is perceived, the person may feel happy and thereby motivated to pursue that behavior. When a somatic marker associated with the negative outcome is perceived, the person may feel sad, which acts as an internal alarm to warn the individual to avoid that course of action. These situation-specific somatic states are based on, and reinforced by, past experiences help to guide behavior in favor of more advantageous choices, and therefore are adaptive.

This brings up the other issue with both AI, and with the idea humans could have their brain uploaded to silicon. Who you are, what you experience and how it effects you is all wound together with your body. The feedback from your body effects your thinking. Whether your young and fit, old and fit or old and declining makes your thinking different. So if you could upload someone's whole persona into either an artificial construct or a robot body that would in time change who they were anyway. Could they or should they build into AI's in the future an aging process? At least until things are more advanced and we know more about how things go that seems to me like a good idea. Some of what is reinforcing is built into your body and how it reacts. This sort of things is obviously very complex and recursive.

 

[caught gesture]

Then there is the influence of the gut on the brain.

 

[Purité Audio]

Furutech NCF Clear Line Passive Plugs

A cryogenic/demagnetisation process and proprietary piezoelectric crystals lie at the heart of Furutech's 'Clear Line' plugs. We cut through the noise. Cryogenic treatment is key to almost every Furutech cable and connector, as is the promise of exceptional build and finish quality [HFN Mar '18].

www.hifinews.com

Keith

 

[Audiofire]

Then there is the influence of the gut on the brain.

No guts, no glory.

 

[AdrianusG]

I've got an exit strategy for them, and a few here too.
View attachment 357722

Ah, i see, by way of (UN)natural selection

 

[SIY]

Little hand gesture to let us know bigfoot is satisfied with his natural habitat and does not need outside interference:

He does have a name, you know. STEVE SMITH.

 

[mhardy6647]

I'm dropping in from a very busy thread

 

[egellings]

I have also met him and spent some quality listening time with him.
... and (more to the point), I resemble that remark.


In my line of work, that code means "Y'all (typically the NIH) need to renew my grant so we can keep doin' this stuff!" Grants are written like old movie serials, with some sort of attention grabbing action -- and a cliffhanger ending. "More work is needed..." means More money is needed.

Not needed, but wanted.

 

[egellings]

If a cable owner believes that his cable enhances the sound quality of his system, then to him, and him alone, the cable will "sound" better, even if there is no difference in the voltages impressed across the speaker terminals using his or any other cable meant for that use.

 

[Purité Audio]

That’s only because he has been told and thus expects an improvement.
Keith

 

[kemmler3D]

That’s only because he has been told and thus expects an improvement.
Keith

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you expect to hear something, you'll almost always hear something. I've had it happen to me more than once where I twiddled an EQ knob in a DAW that was actually inactive... but I heard something anyway.

This makes the comment thread on Stereophile particularly tragic. Lots of commenters lambasting Archimago and ASR because the reviewer has LISTENING experience! Forget that measurements show nothing anyone could possibly hear, he knows how to LISTEN! We're clearly just sniveling ingrates, poor and cloth-eared...

 

[egellings]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, if you expect to hear something, you'll almost always hear something. I've had it happen to me more than once where I twiddled an EQ knob in a DAW that was actually inactive... but I heard something anyway.

This makes the comment thread on Stereophile particularly tragic. Lots of commenters lambasting Archimago and ASR because the reviewer has LISTENING experience! Forget that measurements show nothing anyone could possibly hear, he knows how to LISTEN! We're clearly just sniveling ingrates, poor and cloth-eared...

Oh, the beating of the breast, the gnashing of the teeth, and the clutching of the pearls!

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

If a cable owner believes that his cable enhances the sound quality of his system, then to him, and him alone, the cable will "sound" better, even if there is no difference in the voltages impressed across the speaker terminals using his or any other cable meant for that use.

Yeah. But I think there’s a catch. I see a cycle of buyer’s euphoria followed by slow return to ground zero and the itch to upgrade comes back. It’s the Escher stairway to a better system.

 

[mhardy6647]

Not needed, but wanted.

It's needed if the researcher has hungry mouths at home to feed.

 

[egellings]

Yeah. But I think there’s a catch. I see a cycle of buyer’s euphoria followed by slow return to ground zero and the itch to upgrade comes back. It’s the Escher stairway to a better system.

Exactly! After purchasing a new cable, the initial rush will have the shelf life of potato salad, then it's back to the regular grind again.

 

[Victor Martell]

While the discussion has been going for 22 pages, would like to point out one thing: From reading the comments in the story, I have come to the realization that ASR has become the albatross over the "improbable claims" audiophilia. Someone will always bring it out, for or against ASR. That, in itself is quite an achievement. Vilify, dismiss or plain hate it, ASR is always on their minds.
Didn't someone from a really outrageous audiophile company express joy at the guy from Audioholics getting covid? Imagine what they think of Amir? (fact check requested, writing from memory, no time to research)

Many times I disagree with members or attitudes in ASR, but well, most of the time, they are fundamentally right, hence my continuous presence here.

Just thought it was the perfect thread to celebrate what ASR has achieved and what it represents to that side of the industry.

 

[Chrispy]

Didn't someone from a really outrageous audiophile company express joy at the guy from Audioholics getting covid? Imagine what they think of Amir? (fact check requested, writing from memory, no time to research)

IIRC Thed from SR doing the attack on Gene.... (and IIRC Thed is a vaccine denier as well).