Lack of high-end speaker reviews

[Sancus]

The only wildly expensive speakers I've ever seen that have a complexity of design and capability that kinda merits their price are the Beolab 90s with dynamically changeable directivity/beam width control and 18 actively controlled drivers per speaker.

Most passive high end speakers just seem to be bigger and fancier cabinets but with the same basic designs. There's not even that many doing somewhat interesting things like the Kef Blades.

There are certainly high end speakers that measure pretty well like the Magicos mentioned already but they're not doing any engineering that meaningfully sets them apart as far as I can tell.

 

[Sokel]

The only wildly expensive speakers I've ever seen that have a complexity of design and capability that kinda merits their price are the Beolab 90s with dynamically changeable directivity/beam width control and 18 actively controlled drivers per speaker.

Most passive high end speakers just seem to be bigger and fancier cabinets but with the same basic designs. There's not even that many doing somewhat interesting things like the Kef Blades.

There are certainly high end speakers that measure pretty well like the Magicos mentioned already but they're not doing any engineering that meaningfully sets them apart as far as I can tell.

Amir said once that height is limited also.
So that exclude Kef's Muon for example I guess which we have no reason to believe it measures badly,it's pedigree is solid.

 

[Sancus]

So that exclude Kef's Muon for example I guess which we have no reason to believe it measures badly,it's pedigree is solid.

I'm sure it measures fine, but that's my point. I doubt it is doing anything better than the cheaper-but-still expensive Kefs other than playing louder and to me playing louder isn't interesting engineering.

 

[amirm]

Might be cheaper to do it the other way around. Send the klippel and Amir.

It is a very fragile system not made to be transported. It came in many boxes and took two full days to assemble. Think erector set and you will get an idea of it. Could probably move it but I hate to think of what would happen if it toppled over.

 

[amirm]

I think Amir is hesitant to review hundred pound speakers. I believe Erin has a setup for measuring floor standers - and perhaps a better back.

Erin's system doesn't have the Z-extension that I have (requires very tall ceiling to house the system). As a result, he is very limited in height of the speaker. He gets around it partially by laying the speaker on the side and then rotating the measurement results 90 degrees. This also has a limit as the width has a maximum as well. And you have a secondary limit of the speaker needing to be flat on the side to be able to lay it on the Klippel stand.

I can go up to 6 foot tall I think. I have a lift that allows me to transport speakers to the top of the stand but that is half the battle. Packing and unpacking speakers is a huge hassle when speaker gets above 100 pounds.

 

[amirm]

Any problem can be solved. In this case, we could rent a warehouse with rigging for large speakers overhead, and be able to measure very large speakers. With that, we would need to have some helpers as well. All of this could happen if we had a lot more revenue. It is what I think should happen to have some kind of succession planning for me. The obvious path of advertising is not a consideration so we are where we are.

Then again, what is the usefulness of doing such reviews as a practical matter? It would make for fun reading but unlikely that many would be actually interested in buying such speakers. The field is so fragmented that you would have to test 100 of them to have enough coverage.

 

[voodooless]

I wouldn’t send Amir speakers if I were a high end designer/ manufacturer. I’m sure I will get pelted for this but IMO his approach to reviewing speakers is very flawed and has a major set of biases that favor one specific approach and philosophy of speaker design. So unless as a designer I shared that approach and philosophy there’s no way I’d send him my speakers.

Excuse me now while I duck for cover.

Your nickname is “just the facts man”. That’s what you get with @amirm speaker reviews. You can just ignore his interpretation of that data and make up your own mind. At least all the data is there for you to interpret in any way you like. You don’t have to agree with the conclusions for the review to be useful.

 

[KLang1]

Erin's system doesn't have the Z-extension

Readers added context they thought people might want to know:
It does. He's measuring floor standers non-stop for over a month now.

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

Your nickname is “just the facts man”. That’s what you get with @amirm speaker reviews. You can just ignore his interpretation of that data and make up your own mind. At least all the data is there for you to interpret in any way you like. You don’t have to agree with the conclusions for the review to be useful.

You also get a subjective review after the measurements sans any bias controls or considerations for manufacturer’s set up and use recommendations. As an audiophile I already do ignore the subjective part of his speaker reviews as I do with just about all reviews. My comments were regarding how speaker manufacturers might feel about having their speakers reviewed by Amir.

 

[voodooless]

You also get a subjective review after the measurements sans any bias controls or considerations for manufacturer’s set up and use recommendations. As an audiophile I already do ignore the subjective part of his speaker reviews as I do with just about all reviews. My comments were regarding how speaker manufacturers might feel about having their speakers reviewed by Amir.

Well, yes, you will get the discussion. If you’re afraid your multi $$$ speaker does not hold up to some scrutiny, I can already guess what the performance will be…

 

[Galliardist]

That's 5.000 members according to your statistics.
Even 1% is 500 members so no small number.

BUT,I'll say it again,to some that stuff costs less than the cheapest chinese dac,literally nothing.
They would either get that or pay some similar tax.

Money brings money.

Not 500. 50. A small number.

 

[holdingpants01]

It is a very fragile system not made to be transported. It came in many boxes and took two full days to assemble. Think erector set and you will get an idea of it. Could probably move it but I hate to think of what would happen if it toppled over.

but what about the Klippel?

 

[Galliardist]

Readers added context they thought people might want to know:
It does. He's measuring floor standers non-stop for over a month now

OK, but I can only see JBL M2 (assisted by the owner to move) from the heavyweight contenders in the review list, and the tallest seems to be the LS60. I'd guess that he has similar issues to Amir in measuring, in practice.

 

[Sokel]

Not 500. 50. A small number.

???
1% of 50.000 members are 50?

 

[Galliardist]

???
1% of 50.000 members are 50?

View attachment 340250

Ah. I misread your post and calculated 1% of 5000...

 

[pinger]

You also get a subjective review after the measurements sans any bias controls or considerations for manufacturer’s set up and use recommendations. As an audiophile I already do ignore the subjective part of his speaker reviews as I do with just about all reviews. My comments were regarding how speaker manufacturers might feel about having their speakers reviewed by Amir.

Speaker companies of course prefer getting "reviews" in publications where they purchase ad space such as Stereophile.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Some high end speakers I'd love to see measured

 

[boxerfan88]

I do agree with OP. Some of us may have the interest on some of these speakers but the lack of measured performance data makes some of us hesitate to consider them.

Some on my wish/dream list to be measured include:

• Magico M2
• Marten Coltrane Tenor 2
• Vivid Giya G3
• ATC 50/100
• PSI Audio A25M
• Paragon Harmony PH5
• Børresen X3

As OP said, we will never know...

 

[Frank2]

I wouldn’t send Amir speakers if I were a high end designer/ manufacturer. I’m sure I will get pelted for this but IMO his approach to reviewing speakers is very flawed and has a major set of biases that favor one specific approach and philosophy of speaker design. So unless as a designer I shared that approach and philosophy there’s no way I’d send him my speakers.

Excuse me now while I duck for cover.

Even if I google for the most expensive loudspeakers, I see only one design philosophy for almost all of them: Split the frequency range to be reproduced over several transducers and make the transitions between those transducers as smooth as possible while trying to get an even frequency response with low distortion over a consistent dispersion angle. I do not see many designers who do not share this design approach and philosophy. They only differ in transducers used, filter design, amplification, cabinet design and materials, and the application of DSP but that does not have any consequence on how to measure a speaker's performance.

 

[voodooless]

I do agree with OP. Some of us may have the interest on some of these speakers but the lack of measured performance data makes some of us hesitate to consider them.

Some on my wish/dream list include:

• Magico M2
• Marten Coltrane Tenor 2
• Vivid Giya G3
• ATC 50/100
• PSI Audio A25M
• Paragon Harmony PH5
• Børresen X3

As OP said, we will never know...

Some of these have so much margin that they could throw in a Kippel for free and still make a profit

If customers were really interested in these measurements, it would be a piece of cake for these companies to provide them.