Don't know about the Type 20, but the Type 30 measures quite badly (cf https://www.soundandrecording.de/equipment/hedd-type-30-3-wege-monitor-mit-amt-hochtoener-im-test/). And HEDD suspiciously doesn't publish any useful measurements, unlike Dynaudio (for the LYD serie, at least) and Neumann.
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Tannoy td12. Or 10.
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This is definitely one that I am interested in. Do you have any opinion on the KEF R5 or R7 models of the Monitor Audio Silver 500s? Just curious.
Marc v E
Major Contributor
Okay, this may sound odd, but I wouldn't spend the whole 4000. The reason is that 10 years ago I bought the B&O Beolab 9 and have been really happy with them.
Speaker technology hasn't improved much if at all in those years.
I might buy their successor the Beolab 20, but they cost a cool 9000. And are marginally better.
Other option would be the Beolab 5, also second hand. They have more power for a bigger room and possibly better directivity in the midrange due to the lens used. Personally I found them almost indistinguishable to the Beolab 9 in sound quality, although they gave better imaging and a deep bass that sounds a bit detached from the rest of the drivers. imo of course.
Add a streamer/dac/pre all-in-one and you have years of enjoyment.
Speaker technology hasn't improved much if at all in those years.
I might buy their successor the Beolab 20, but they cost a cool 9000. And are marginally better.
Other option would be the Beolab 5, also second hand. They have more power for a bigger room and possibly better directivity in the midrange due to the lens used. Personally I found them almost indistinguishable to the Beolab 9 in sound quality, although they gave better imaging and a deep bass that sounds a bit detached from the rest of the drivers. imo of course.
Add a streamer/dac/pre all-in-one and you have years of enjoyment.
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Pearljam5000
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JBL l100 classic
Genelec 8350A
Neumann KH310
Genelec 8350A
Neumann KH310
devopsprodude
Senior Member
Yeah, +1 for the BMRs or some floor standers from Revel.
digitalfrost
Major Contributor
KEF R5 or R7s. Use the rest of the money for subwoofers and room correction.
flyzipper
Active Member
You didn't specify a use case, so here's mine:
$2000 for a pair of subwoofers (Rythmik, PSA, JTR, etc)
$1000 for integration and tuning (MiniDSP SHD)
- stereo listening (5%), movie watching (15%), video game playing (80%)
- frequency response down to 20Hz +/-2dB
- typical sized residential listening room
- moderate listening levels
- unconcerned about aesthetics
$2000 for a pair of subwoofers (Rythmik, PSA, JTR, etc)
$1000 for integration and tuning (MiniDSP SHD)
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Helicopter
Major Contributor
If I didn't already do this I would wait until World Wide Stereo has Focal Aria 948 again and get a pair of those. Since I have them, some Rythmik subs.
I case another vote for the Revel F208 towers.
Revel F208s. I assume that's $4000 for the pair?
Yes, it should be possible to find a dealer willing to offer 20% off. Asking is the key. Sometimes Revel also has "B" stock that can be as much as 40 to 50% off.
Regarding - How many don't - I don't know as i'm almost certain neither do you. Pretty safe bet most people listen to music using speakers. Seems as if your trying to create controversy where none is needed.
Regarding - Only when their bad comment- Speakers ( plus the room ) are the final tool in the chain to produce the music we hear. Good or bad.
Regarding - Remains to be proved, in the case of people with normal/non-damaged hearing.- I' assume you meant remains to be proven. Talk with any Otolaryngologists and I'm sure he or she will confirm, people hear things differently, whether to hearing loss, normal hearing, extraordinary hearing, dry ear, fluid in ear, etc. All of these things effect the way you or anyone else interprets sound. Point is, just because you hear one thing from a certain speaker, they next guy may hear something else.
To your last point regarding my reasoning- My statements shouldn't be controversial on any forum. You can say what you like, science can say what is accurate, my point was and still is, regardless of either. People do have their own preferences especially when it comes to speakers. We do listen to music coming from the speakers.
While the science says a more flat response is correct, that doesn't change the fact that not everyone prefers a flat response. Think of all the bad measuring speakers out there. One example, the Klipsch ( heresy, cornwall, heritage ) speakers. While they are a nightmare with the measurements, yet they still seem to have loyal following of people who just adore them. Although most folks i know don't like them, they have a sound signature that some folks do prefer.
Which comes down to what i stated earlier, most people have their own personal preference when it comes to speakers. That's why when it comes to people asking for recommendations, I'm not sure how I can be wrong by telling someone the best advice is to go and audition them for yourself.
As to your ketchup gourmet scenario, that's just being silly. ( real men use mustard
) Who are you or i to say who is or isn't a gourmet because of whatever ingredient they choose to use. It's no different, when people start arguing over, what is an audiophile. Who cares? If someone enjoys and loves listening to music, want to call him or herself an audiophile, well then good for them. Whatever equipment you choose to get you there and accomplishes your goal of audio nirvana, in the end usually boils down to some form of personal preference. Neither science nor our ears are perfect. Measurements are great and all, but as alot of people would agree who have or use any type of room correction software tools, in the end a little user personal preference tweaking occurs.
flyzipper
Active Member
100% agree.
That's why my response in this thread allocated 75% of the $4000 budget to getting the bass right (applying a house curve of my preference), down to 20Hz, because that's important to me.
(I like mustard too)
No controversy, Toole & Olive have some interesting numbers. There are some outliers, but they're rare.
That's what I meant by "inb4 circle of confusion". In average, studios tend to aim for neutrality.
Pretty sure the brain does post-processing to arrive at a fairly similar result for everyone, for obvious evolutionary reasons. If that weren't the case and these differences were significative, like all such characteristics, it would most probably follow a normal distribution.
That's not a "fact", though. But even without going into these uncertain territories, I assert: preference isn't real, you always adjust with time. So why not let your ears acclimate themselves to neutral sound and get what the record transmits (thus what the artist(s)+proper sound engineer(s) meant) instead of playing make-believe artist and colouring everything?
You don't know such a thing. Multiple reasons like look, nostalgia, audiophile group pressure or more subtle ones like difference between background music and intent listening or lack of bass behaving better in untreated rooms with uncorrected signal ("fast" bass) could play a role. In the case of these Klipsch, I personally wager that these are mostly people who use music to listen to their speakers.
If most means ">= 50%", this is factually wrong. See https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/are-our-preferences-different-in-audio.284/
Room correction is mainly about "correcting" response, not customizing it, as the name implies. Facts about good in-room response aren't new, as the good old B&K curve shows us.
tl;dr yes, you can recommend a speaker purely based on objective performance as long as the budget is enough to preclude pondering different compromises; though, even in this case, linear distortion is more important than nonlinear. Decades of research gave us at least some certitudes.
And now for a question that may seem a bit aggressive: why are you (or anybody not caring about the "science" part of the website) even here? There are countless audiophiles fora for this.
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flyzipper
Active Member
I'd submit that personal preference is the only thing that is real and matters, to any given person (mine to me, yours to you).
It's irrelevant that preferences may adjust with time; a person's current preferences are all that matters.
My preference may not be aligned with theirs.
Their preference does not matter to me, nor do I consider it some sacred thing that must be preserved.
Whenever I scientifically measure with a calibrated mic, apply DSP to integrate multiple subwoofers, and tune the bass with a +6dB rising house curve as it slopes to 20Hz... that's simultaneously scientific, and embracing my preference.
A reminder that this thread is titled, "You have $4000. What speakers do you buy?".
That's entirely about personal preference.
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