A Difficult Album for Your System to Test

[honn]

I think Juan Diego Florez's album, Sentimiento Latino (2006, Decca), contains some challenging tracks to play on stereo systems and headphones alike. The challenge seems to be in reproducing his agile and bright tenor voice with a lot of high formants, or 'ringing quality,' combined with the full blast of the orchestra on some climactic passages, making them prone to distort on inefficient speakers. But even many speakers and headphones will distort on those passages played on low volumes.

The tracks:
Track #5, Granada. 03:45 - end. Especially from 04:00-04:03.
Track #8, Jurame. 00:48 - 00:50.

My Experience:
The Elac DBR62 distorted on lower volumes. The Paradigm Prestige 15B actually did not distort as much except on the lowest volumes, probably due to their high efficiency rating? Quad Z-2 similarly distorted on low volume, but not on high. Philharmonic Audio Mini Monitors distorted on low volume, but I could still hear a bit of distortion on high too.

The Hifiman HE-400i and TinHifi P1 similarly distorted on low.

Closing:
This is all assuming that the distortion is not in the track itself. But it is also a possibility. But I could not determine it because results varied from gears to gears and volume levels.

How does your system do? Make sure you try the passages once on regular volume level and another one on very low volume you'd play in the middle of the night.

Thanks!

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I didn't hear any distortion on Granada, but I gotta say that album is way over-the-top bright sounding to the point where it pierces my skull, even at low volume. What on earth was the recording engineer thinking.....ouch!

 

[honn]

I didn't hear any distortion on Granada, but I gotta say that album is way over-the-top bright sounding to the point where it pierces my skull, even at low volume. What on earth was the recording engineer thinking.....ouch!

I assure you that Florez's natural formants are really, really, laser-like, capable of cutting through live orchestra sound without microphone! I attended his live concert before at Carnegie Hall, so I know this for a fact. So I don't think it's the recording so much as the voice itself.

Did you also hear the passages on very low volume?

Thanks!

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I assure you that Florez's natural formants are really, really, laser-like, capable of cutting through live orchestra sound without microphone! I attended his live concert before at Carnegie Hall, so I know this for a fact. So I don't think it's the recording so much as the voice itself.

Did you also hear the passages on very low volume?

Thanks!

Yes, I heard it at low volume. But that recording is far too bright, and not just on his voice - the recording is not doing his voice any favors, nor the orchestra. That brightness might explain some of the 'distortion' you are hearing, especially if your speakers tend to have brightness of their own.

 

[Alexanderc]

Sounded fine on my cheap bluetooth earbuds. The family is asleep so I’ll have to try listening tomorrow and see what it sounds like.

I’ve been up close and personal with a few big-voice opera singers and I have never found that experience could be duplicated in a recording. You can feel those formants as much as hear them when you’re in the same room. I don’t know what that means for this particular recording, but JDF is a great singer so thanks for suggesting this album!

 

[honn]

Yes, I heard it at low volume. But that recording is far too bright, and not just on his voice - the recording is not doing his voice any favors, nor the orchestra. That brightness might explain some of the 'distortion' you are hearing, especially if your speakers tend to have brightness of their own.

I hear the distortion through speakers considered neutral: Dennis Murphy's new Mini Monitors and Elac Debut Reference DBR-62. Also some not so neutral speakers like Quad Z-2 and Paradigm Prestige 15B. I just did a listening test and could hear up to 17,000 Hz. I wonder if maybe the distortion is a bit high up there?

 

[honn]

Sounded fine on my cheap bluetooth earbuds. The family is asleep so I’ll have to try listening tomorrow and see what it sounds like.

I’ve been up close and personal with a few big-voice opera singers and I have never found that experience could be duplicated in a recording. You can feel those formants as much as hear them when you’re in the same room. I don’t know what that means for this particular recording, but JDF is a great singer so thanks for suggesting this album!

Oh yes, I am under no impression that these recordings can capture the full extent of operatic singers' formants and awesomeness haha, especially those spinto tenors~!

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

I have no idea but like I said the Spectra is tilted way far into the brightness region. I studied music composition in college and was around a lot of singers and orchestras. I never heard anything that sounded that bright even the operatic singers.

 

[honn]

I have no idea but like I said the Spectra is tilted way far into the brightness region. I studied music composition in college and was around a lot of singers and orchestras. I never heard anything that sounded that bright even the operatic singers.

I maybe used to them then haha. Btw, what speakers do you use?

 

[ernestcarl]

I think Juan Diego Florez's album, Sentimiento Latino (2006, Decca), contains some challenging tracks to play on stereo systems and headphones alike. The challenge seems to be in reproducing his agile and bright tenor voice with a lot of high formants, or 'ringing quality,' combined with the full blast of the orchestra on some climactic passages, making them prone to distort on inefficient speakers. But even many speakers and headphones will distort on those passages played on low volumes.

The tracks:
Track #5, Granada. 03:45 - end. Especially from 04:00-04:03.
Track #8, Jurame. 00:48 - 00:50.

My Experience:
The Elac DBR62 distorted on lower volumes. The Paradigm Prestige 15B actually did not distort as much except on the lowest volumes, probably due to their high efficiency rating? Quad Z-2 similarly distorted on low volume, but not on high. Philharmonic Audio Mini Monitors distorted on low volume, but I could still hear a bit of distortion on high too.

The Hifiman HE-400i and TinHifi P1 similarly distorted on low.

Closing:
This is all assuming that the distortion is not in the track itself. But it is also a possibility. But I could not determine it because results varied from gears to gears and volume levels.

How does your system do? Make sure you try the passages once on regular volume level and another one on very low volume you'd play in the middle of the night.

Thanks!

I’ll listen to this tonight. I like JD Florez, but his voice tends to be brighter sounding than other tenors.

 

[honn]

I’ll listen to this tonight. I like JD Florez, but his voice tends to be brighter sounding than other tenors.

Yes, he is a light lyric tenor with a very bright timbre! Fitting for bel canto style.
Let me know!

 

[ernestcarl]

Finished through the album and listened via the Spotify app in Windows. It sounds perfectly fine to me as long as you don't crank up the volume to max.

Volume average is 65-6 dB(C) SPL with peaks up to 80-1 dB(C) SPL at 2 meters in my MLP using a CM-130 handheld meter. Far from clipping at any stage.

For this particular album, I would not listen any louder else it would be too fatiguing.

Using @jlo's recommended (likely better) MMM technique/mic orientation, I get the ff. L+R sum FR from the Sceptres+sub:

Monitor neutrality here is not an issue. Though I have to agree that this album itself is quite bright/hot at certain peak loud points -- again, I suggest simply lowering the overall volume. I couldn't detect any obvious distortion in the difficult passages you pointed out even at my maximum volume.

 

[ernestcarl]

Nope... Actually, at low volumes one can indeed hear the microphone distorting as he bellows out at his loudest. The mic is likely clipping at those particular points.

 

[ernestcarl]

Why don't we hear some distortion clearly at louder levels?

Why Mixing At Low Volume Does NOT Remove Your Room (But You Still Should)

I think he makes a good case of why it's a good idea to mix or monitor at low levels -- not just at regular or loud volumes.

 

[ctrl]

This is all assuming that the distortion is not in the track itself. But it is also a possibility. But I could not determine it because results varied from gears to gears and volume levels.

Actually, at low volumes one can indeed hear the microphone distorting as he bellows out at his loudest. The mic is likely clipping at those particular points.

Tend to support your statements.
At low volume, I can briefly perceive distortion in one or two points in each music sample (with loudspeaker and headphones) - at least this is my assumption.

Haven't heard much of the album now, but the recording didn't sound extremely bright to me. The voice no longer sounds "nice and balanced" at certain points of the music pieces, but that might really be due to the voice itself.

On the music pieces mentioned by @honn, the frequency analysis shows that at the times that @honn specified, that the frequency range around 2.5-3kHz is very strongly emphasized by the voice.
This is exactly in the range of the ear canal resonance and in the range in which many speakers emit too much "sound power".

Track #5, Granada. 03:45 - end. Especially from 04:00-04:03.


Track #8, Jurame. 00:48 - 00:50.


Therefore, a few things probably come together here.

 

[PierreV]

Quick test on the audio technica headset connected to my PC: on Granada, the distortion peak is very audible for me, but more present in the right channel. And either the voice isn't the only thing affected (or its distortion overwhelms the rest).

 

[honn]

Okay, thank you all for responding and checking!

From what I gathered so far, I think it is safe to say that the distortion is most likely in the recording itself.

Now with this new piece of information I need to reinterpret my experience with those speakers I mentioned, and the conclusion seems to be that Dennis Murphy's Philharmonic Audio new Mini Monitors are the most accurate pair over Elac DBR-62, Paradigm Prestige 15B, and Quad Z-2, because the Minis reproduced the distortion even on higher volumes (albeit less pronounced than on low volumes). On that same count, the Prestige 15B and Z-2 tend to smooth things out--but they could have application if you don't want to be interrupted and bothered in your listening session. That audiophile cliché about an unforgiving accurate speaker might be what is witnessed here!

So in a way, this is a testament to the accuracy of the Mini Monitors.

 

[Bugal1998]

Tried both passages at normal and softer levels streamed from Tidal via NAD C658 (Dirac Live engaged with Harman Target Curve)>Crown I-tech 5000HD>JBL M2. Certainly the passages are too bright for my ears, but I heard no distortion at any level. Also listened on JBL 305p, 708p, and Sennheiser HD800s (with Amir's EQ) and no distortion. Could it be different masters leading to different results?

Here's another challenging passage to try; Sunday Service Choir "Jesus is Born" album, track 14- Back to Life from 00:04-00:07 (right channel) . The voices seem to slightly buzz through the 708p and Studio 590, but are smooth and resolved through the M2 and all the other speakers mentioned above. First time I heard it in the 708p I thought I had a defective driver so I swapped L/R speakers and heard the same result.

I first heard that track at an audio dealer using it to demo the speakers ability to resolve the spatial cues of the natural reverb, the chorus of voices, and the distance of the instruments when they join in.

 

[watchnerd]

How does your system do? Make sure you try the passages once on regular volume level and another one on very low volume you'd play in the middle of the night.

Thanks!

Just tried it on my system (Dynaudio Contour 20, 2 x ML subs, Devialet Expert 400) and it was no problem.

Breezed right through, even at 90 dB at the listening position.

But I also agree with others that this stuff is bright.

TBH, I have more challenging music in my collection.

 

[honn]

Therefore, a few things probably come together here.[/QUOTE]

Just tried it on my system (Dynaudio Contour 20, 2 x ML subs, Devialet Expert 400) and it was no problem.

Breezed right through, even at 90 dB at the listening position.

But I also agree with others that this stuff is bright.

TBH, I have more challenging music in my collection.

Have you tried the passages on very low volumes?