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A Difficult Album for Your System to Test

shal

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Just listen the youtube version :

Yes, for me there is distortion . At the captation of the voice I guess.
 

watchnerd

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Therefore, a few things probably come together here.


Have you tried the passages on very low volumes?[/QUOTE]

Yes, that's where I started.

No issues there, either, beyond the defects that are obviously in the recording itself.

You can't expect a system to solve recording defects.
 
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honn

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Have you tried the passages on very low volumes?

Yes, that's where I started.

No issues there, either, beyond the defects that are obviously in the recording itself.

You can't expect a system to solve recording defects.[/QUOTE]
oh so you did hear the distortion on the passages I indicated right? Yeah I think the distortion is there in the recording. But some speakers can mask them on high volumes better than others, which is to say they're less accurate.
 

MakeMineVinyl

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I went ahead and did a direct rip into my workstation. The ending of this piece (Granada) is obviously very congested, and judging from past experience, there is probably some electronic limiting going on in this area. Combine a bright sounding recording with electronic limiting and I can easily see how that could sound like 'distortion'.

Granada.jpg
 

ctrl

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...because the Minis reproduced the distortion even on higher volumes (albeit less pronounced than on low volumes). On that same count, the Prestige 15B and Z-2 tend to smooth things out--but they could have application if you don't want to be interrupted and bothered in your listening session.
It is important to note that one should distinguish between the short passages where distortions are audible and a fundamentally unbalanced reproduction that causes "listening fatigue".

The distortions in these examples are more like a slightly annoying additional noise. An unbalanced reproduction is exhausting and annoying after a short time.

If it sounds less fatiguing over "reasonable" headphones, then the cause is not distortion, but an unbalanced reproduction by the speakers (in combination with the listening room).

If it sounds equally horrible over speakers and headphones (most of the time), it's most likely the recording itself.
 

Bugal1998

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Just listen the youtube version :

Yes, for me there is distortion . At the captation of the voice I guess.

I didn't try it on every system again, but there was no distortion for me listening over the 708p or the HD800s on the YouTube clip. Perhaps some systems have a gain issue in the signal chain that's clipping the loudest passages?

He has a textbook tenor voice with lots of ring or "ping" and the so-called "tenor squeal", which in real life is crazy intense(!) and even visceral, almost like hearing sunshine (or lasers as @honn said)... but I don't hear distortion.
 
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honn

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I didn't try it on every system again, but there was no distortion for me listening over the 708p or the HD800s on the YouTube clip. Perhaps some systems have a gain issue in the signal chain that's clipping the loudest passages?

He has a textbook tenor voice with lots of ring or "ping" and the so-called "tenor squeal", which in real life is crazy intense(!) and even visceral, almost like hearing sunshine (or lasers as @honn said)... but I don't hear distortion.

I had my friend listen through his Yamaha HS8 and also Sennheiser HD800S like yours, he said the distortion was there! hhaha confusing huh? He listened from Spotify. I listened through Qobuz and original files I ripped from my CD.
 

MakeMineVinyl

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OK, I zoomed into one of the areas where the level is highest, and there is clear evidence of electronic limiting ('soft' clipping as it is sometimes called). Notice at the cursor the waveform is not only full scale digital, but the top of the cycle is slightly too-rounded - a telltale sign of limiting.

Limiting.jpg
 

Bugal1998

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I had my friend listen through his Yamaha HS8 and also Sennheiser HD800S like yours, he said the distortion was there! hhaha confusing huh? He listened from Spotify. I listened through Qobuz and original files I ripped from my CD.

Interesting!
 

MakeMineVinyl

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Its worth noting that asymmetrical waveforms like above will generate even order distortion (if they clip symmetrically, odd order distortion is generated). So yeah, there is distortion there. I couldn't hear it specifically, but some might. It just sounded congested, compressed and bright to me.
 
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honn

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Its worth noting that asymmetrical waveforms like above will generate even order distortion (if they clip symmetrically, odd order distortion is generated). So yeah, there is distortion there. I couldn't hear it specifically, but some might. It just sounded congested, compressed and bright to me.
Thanks! I'm pretty sure at this point yeah..
 

MakeMineVinyl

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Thanks! I'm pretty sure at this point yeah..
This was from the area you specified. The thing is, it wasn't difficult for me to find a suitable clipped peak - there were many, many to choose from, so the aggregate impact on the ear of many limited peaks like this will certainly be heard. I just heard it as bad sound, YMMV.
 

Aldoszx

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I also can hear the distortion, especially on the right channel.
Roon + TIDAL > D10s > JDS Labs Atom > K371
I will try tomorrow also on the speakers.
 

Bugal1998

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I tried both versions of the album on Tidal, the YouTube clip, and Spotify. I hear lots of pinging and ringing which I attribute to his voice, but I can't say I hear distortion in any way that I normally think of distortion. But I learned a long time ago not to be dogmatic (about much of anything!), and I do believe those who say they hear distortion. I just wonder if it's differences in hearing ability, different interpretations/perceptions of the same sounds, or differences somewhere in the playback chain. We may never know...
 

Bugal1998

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I also can hear the distortion, especially on the right channel.
Roon + TIDAL > D10s > JDS Labs Atom > K371
I will try tomorrow also on the speakers.

For which sample?
 

MakeMineVinyl

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There is one CD which I have on which I've always heard clipping at a certain point. I've zoomed in on this area - you can clearly see the flattened waveform which indicates digital clipping. This CD is from the 1980s, so I imagine they either didn't have soft clipping processing available, or they did and just screwed up and didn't hear the distortion before it was too late. The CD is of the Vivaldi 'Gloria' and the track is Et in terra pax, by the Academy of Ancient Music, Simon Preston, cond. The recording is probably out of circulation, but if you can find it, the offending area is about at about 4:30 into track #2 (the high note from the boy's choir).

Et in terra pax.jpg
 

ernestcarl

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... some speakers can mask them on high volumes better than others, which is to say they're less accurate.

That could be true. Although please don’t forget about the human component here — and presence of pre-conditioning. If one were not paying particular attention to something pointed out in advance and at what listening volume to listen at, would most people really notice these deficiencies right at the first passage through the length of an entire album? Remember that the ear-brain system is not equally sensitive to all types of distortions at all volume levels. We aren’t real-time signal analyzers!

I myself consumed the entire album in one go — my intention coming in mainly was to enjoy a classical vocals album from an artist that I already liked — and I did not really pay attention to any of the track positions you specified. Luckily, I enjoyed most of what I heard in the first pass.

It was only later afterwards that I tried to push the volume at max... where I felt fatigue and particular points esp. hurting my ears. And at loud enough a volume, everything eventually just sounds bad anyway. The auditory system would have likely been actively applying its own compression to protect itself, further diminishing sensitivity to the details of said distortion/clipping artifacts.

It’s only when switching to very low volumes and paying closer attention that the distortion became astonishingly obvious to me. I thought my speakers were broken at first as I could clearly hear some kind of crackling type of artifact. This isn’t the first time that I’ve heard something like this either. If I payed close attention to all music combing for deficiencies and/or excesses all of the time, I likely would enjoy life and music less.
 
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honn

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That could be true. Although please don’t forget about the human component here — and presence of pre-conditioning. If one were not paying particular attention to something pointed out in advance and at what listening volume to listen at, would most people really notice these deficiencies right at the first passage through the length of an entire album? Remember that the ear-brain system is not equally sensitive to all types of distortions at all volume levels. We aren’t real-time signal analyzers!

I myself consumed the entire album in one go — my intention coming in mainly was to enjoy a classical vocals album from an artist that I already liked — and I did not really pay attention to any of the track positions you specified. Luckily, I enjoyed most of what I heard in the first pass.

It was only later afterwards that I tried to push the volume at max... where I felt fatigue and particular points esp. hurting my ears. And at loud enough a volume, everything eventually just sounds bad anyway. The auditory system would have likely been actively applying its own compression to protect itself, further diminishing sensitivity to the details of said distortion/clipping artifacts.

It’s only when switching to very low volumes and paying closer attention that the distortion became astonishingly obvious to me. I thought my speakers were broken at first as I could clearly hear some kind of crackling type of artifact. This isn’t the first time that I’ve heard something like this either. If I payed close attention to all music combing for deficiencies and/or excesses all of the time, I likely would enjoy life and music less.
Yes, you are right. Compared to another album of him also from Decca, "L'amour", it's less hot and better recorded overall. The problem is, I am intentionally turning on my critical intensive listening, because I am auditioning several speakers to keep a pair permanently haha ;)
 

Koloth

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I just listened to both songs and passages twice, on low volume and medium volume (but since I have no db-meter around, you'll just have to take that for what it's worth...) and could hear no distortion. (speakers: Technics SB-R1)
 
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