Best AV Processor under $3k? Lexicon MC-10, Anthem AVM 60, or something else?

[timg]

the Emotiva XMC-2 that seems to have some fw and Dirac problems still to this day.

FW 2.1 seems to have brought stability to the XMC-2 / RMC-1. There seem to be very few people having issues now. The most vocal issues tend to be HDMI CEC and ARC. HDMI CEC / ARC issues are solved by not using HDMI CEC / ARC. I've never had it work properly on anything I've owned from any manufacturer. I can't understand buying a $3-5k pre-amp and deciding to use HDMI CEC / ARC.

Emotiva's 40% off cards are still being sold online and used for their processors, but these will expire January 1. With these cards, their processors are an incredibly good deal.

Things to note with Emotiva.
No Auro and never getting it. No DTS:X Pro (should come eventually, but no guarantees at this time and could be years away). Official word on DLBC from Emotiva themselves is below. I would not expect DLBC before the end of 2021...
"Here is the current status... as of December 2, 2020.

Implementing Dirac Live Bass Control on our processors will require an update to the DSP code module.
It will also require quite a lot of additional programming on our part to integrate the new feature into our processors.
We cannot proceed with our part of the programming until we receive either an updated DSP code module or source code from Dirac.
So far we have not received the code we will need from Dirac.
(And, since it will also require extensive programming on our part, I cannot give you a definite time-line for the rest of the project.)

I would strongly suggest that everyone make their purchase decisions accordingly."

 

[Sal1950]

I would strongly suggest that everyone make their purchase decisions accordingly."

I got to say friends, I have lost all confidence in Emotiva's engineering department. Yes HDMI, HomeTheater codecs, and all the rest of a AVR's required tasks add up to a very complicated stack of software and hardware, without a doubt IMHO, the hardest to stack to implement well in home audio. But that's not an excuse, AFAIK all the other guys have been fairly successful in bringing their products to market in a reasonably reliable manner.. Over the last 10 years I've owned a super cheapo BOTL Pioneer VSX-822-K reciever plus Marantz 7701 and 7703 pre-pros, none of the 3 have exhibited any real software or hardware failures that made the products troublesome to use. They have all been able to perform there advertised tasks without a major issue.
I don't like to beat up on Emotiva, I have the Emotiva DC-1 DAC that I loaned to Amir 3 years ago to test and it ran for him and me without software issues to comment on. It did have some built shortcomings to talk about but over the last 5 years it's performed for me perfectly both as a DAC, excellent headphone amp, and minimalist 2 channel remote controlled preamp.
I don't know how well Emo's other products have performed on the market but I haven't heard all the complaining on their amps, preamps, etc I have for years now on there HT front ends. It's well past time for them to pull their heads out of their **** and get the HT gear performing before it destroys their entire image..
I don't mean to hurt anyones feelings but this is simply the way I see things, I could in no way ever recommend a Emo HT front end to anyone I liked.
YMMV

No Auro and never getting it.

Why, Denon-Marantz has offered it for years along with many others? And after years of stagnation it appears to be catching on in the multich music world.

No DTS:X Pro (should come eventually, but no guarantees at this time and could be years away)

Again why, others don't seem to have any issues bringing it to market this year?

Implementing Dirac Live Bass Control

Better get off the pot here too. In the 2 ch world along with the multich, having 2 or more subwoofers has began to be the norm for putting together a smooth deep base response system. For that you'll need DLBC, Audyssey's been doing it for years now.

 

[cbrents73]

I believe in break in to some extent. My speakers, when new, literally opened up while playing loud (assuming it was the speakers since they were the newest component). I would think it’s harder to notice on an AVR, etc. Interesting about the heat and amplifier performance. Many are installing fans directly on the amplifier/AVR. Does Anthem have an opinion of using such devices such as the aircom T8, etc?

Hello, I haven't been on for a while and just saw your note. There's absolutely nothing wrong with using fans if components are in an unventilated or restricted space to prevent things from overheating. The one you're interested in shouldn't be a problem at all.

 

[cbrents73]

I would rather see the new AVM70 tested.
Really interested in this instead of the HTP-1 (not available here) and the Emotiva XMC-2 that seems to have some fw and Dirac problems still to this day.

cebrents73 Would Anthem be able to send one out for a review? This is a dealbreaker for at lest me, to see a review of the AVM70 before buying.

Hello, I'm actually not responsible for sending products out for Review, that's handled by our Marketing Department. I can only try and influence, but it's ultimately up to them as to who, when, and how that's handled. Thanks!

 

[Vasr]

Hello, I'm actually not responsible for sending products out for Review, that's handled by our Marketing Department. I can only try and influence, but it's ultimately up to them as to who, when, and how that's handled. Thanks!

Looks like the availability dates are slipping for the new products. Now saying January 2021 on web site. Does this have anything to do with the AKM chip availability? Still no specs posted on web site and the earlier user manual has been pulled.

 

[Bear123]

Am I mistaken, or is ARC incapable of setting the proper distance/delay for subwoofers? Which results in very poor results around crossover? I know someone who recently setup dual subs with the Anthem 1120 and response around crossover was really really bad. He had to measure with REW and manually adjust distance until it fixed the horribly broken response. I would hardly call this "better" than XT32/Sub Eq HT if this is the case. Can anyone verify that ARC does not have this basic and necessary functionality for room corrrection?

 

[Bear123]

Hello -

I was heavily into HT throughout the 90's and 2000's, but stepped away during the past 10 years to pursue other interests.
I moved in 2015 and I am finally finishing out a bonus space into a 21' x 27' x 9' dedicated HT / music room.

I bought Revel F208 front speakers last year and recently added a Rythmik G25HP subwoofer (which I love).
I am planning on buying the matching Revel C208 center and some NHT C1s to use as side and surround speakers until I upgrade to Revel side and surround speakers down the road a bit.

With that background, I am looking at the best AV Processor for $3K or less. I am going to start with a 7.1 system and may expand up to a 7.2.4... but that would be the most. I expect my split between TV & Movies and Music Listening to be pretty close to 50/50.

My top priorities are sound quality and simplicity. I don't have the time or patience to spend hours futzing around with my AV system dealing with bugs, etc.

The dealer that I bought my Revel speakers from is recommending that I look at the Lexicon MC-10, which is a rebadged Arcam AV860. At its original price of $6K, it was above my price range, but it looks like they are clearing them out now and I can pick one up under $3k. I had a Lexicon DC-1 back in the 90's and loved it, but there are next to no reviews of the MC-10.

I am also looking at the Anthem AVM60... it is getting a bit dated, but it looks like it will do what I need to do and should have all the bugs worked out by now. Several reviews mentioned specifically that it sounded great with 2-channel music - which is a plus in my book.

So I am looking for any suggestions as to the direction I should be looking... Lexicon MC-10, Anthem AVM60 or something else?

Thanks,
Jason

Does the Denon 6700 have full preamp mode? Or just L/R?

 

[witchdoctor]

Hello, I'm actually not responsible for sending products out for Review, that's handled by our Marketing Department. I can only try and influence, but it's ultimately up to them as to who, when, and how that's handled. Thanks!

Chris thanks for participating in this thread. My HT is primarily Paradigm Reference Active speakers in a 9.1.4 setup. I have a Paradigm PW amp in my desktop setup and have been able to try ARC, really nice how it integrates the sub. Since my HT speakers are active that means I am using both Paradigm speakers and amps (inside the speakers). I was wondering if the new Anthem AVM 70 has any upgrades in electronics from the AVM 60 (dac, circuits, etc) in addition to the additional channels. I am super curious as to how an all matched Anthem/Paradigm system would sound. I have never tried an Anthem preamp before. Here is a front and back view of my setup.

 

[ririt]

Does the Denon 6700 have full preamp mode? Or just L/R?

Both...

 

[Bear123]

Both...

Ah. In that case then, do any of the "expensive" processors do anything better than a Denon 6700? In fact, are they even as good? Maybe this would be a better option for less money.

I've had a cheaper Denon for several years that has worked flawlessly in every way with no glitches. This seems to be the norm.

 

[rccarguy]

Am I mistaken, or is ARC incapable of setting the proper distance/delay for subwoofers? Which results in very poor results around crossover? I know someone who recently setup dual subs with the Anthem 1120 and response around crossover was really really bad. He had to measure with REW and manually adjust distance until it fixed the horribly broken response. I would hardly call this "better" than XT32/Sub Eq HT if this is the case. Can anyone verify that ARC does not have this basic and necessary functionality for room corrrection?

Correct current anthem at don't time align speakers or sub. But I believe avm70 and 90 will.

 

[Vasr]

Correct current anthem at don't time align speakers or sub. But I believe avm70 and 90 will.

Small correction: It does for current STR series and will do so for all future products.

 

[rccarguy]

Str is stereo range so didn't include them

 

[cbrents73]

Chris thanks for participating in this thread. My HT is primarily Paradigm Reference Active speakers in a 9.1.4 setup. I have a Paradigm PW amp in my desktop setup and have been able to try ARC, really nice how it integrates the sub. Since my HT speakers are active that means I am using both Paradigm speakers and amps (inside the speakers). I was wondering if the new Anthem AVM 70 has any upgrades in electronics from the AVM 60 (dac, circuits, etc) in addition to the additional channels. I am super curious as to how an all matched Anthem/Paradigm system would sound. I have never tried an Anthem preamp before. Here is a front and back view of my setup.

Thank you for your support, we appreciate it! I'm sorry, I'm not going to be able to give you any real definitive answers in regards to the internal differences and won't have specs on anything until we have actual manufactured "Production" units to measure, so I'm not sure how things will differ between the AVM60 & 70? I'd expect they'll be close just because they're working off of a similar platform, however, the AVM60 is five years old now and the DAC's will certainly be better in the 70 along with more up to date streaming capabilities, updated ARC Genesis Room Correction, and the HDMI board going from 2.0a to 2.0b w/eARC and ability to upgrade to 2.1 when we get access to chipsets worthy of using - there will be an additional cost to do that of course, but not sure how much yet? Again, it depends on who's chipset we use and when we can get them. Once those become available and are stable, we would likely do a running change where they're built in and not have to do a separate upgrade with a slight raise in cost/retail, but it's really all a guess right now.

Anthem/Paradigm combos work great since we're the same company - everything is built off of each other, but we do get to play around with a lot of different brands of competitor's products and we still do double blind listening tests against our own stuff and our competitor's. Most Dealers, certainly reputable ones, generally have good return policies. I would find out specifically what that is and work with someone who will let you get a Pre/pro and see what you think. The great thing is, as soon as you hook one up, it's either better or it's not and then you'll know. When I had my store years ago, we let customers borrow products and take them home over the weekend so we could assist them in getting their biggest bang for the buck - was the easiest sales we ever had. Good luck!

 

[witchdoctor]

Thank you for your support, we appreciate it! I'm sorry, I'm not going to be able to give you any real definitive answers in regards to the internal differences and won't have specs on anything until we have actual manufactured "Production" units to measure, so I'm not sure how things will differ between the AVM60 & 70? I'd expect they'll be close just because they're working off of a similar platform, however, the AVM60 is five years old now and the DAC's will certainly be better in the 70 along with more up to date streaming capabilities, updated ARC Genesis Room Correction, and the HDMI board going from 2.0a to 2.0b w/eARC and ability to upgrade to 2.1 when we get access to chipsets worthy of using - there will be an additional cost to do that of course, but not sure how much yet? Again, it depends on who's chipset we use and when we can get them. Once those become available and are stable, we would likely do a running change where they're built in and not have to do a separate upgrade with a slight raise in cost/retail, but it's really all a guess right now.

Anthem/Paradigm combos work great since we're the same company - everything is built off of each other, but we do get to play around with a lot of different brands of competitor's products and we still do double blind listening tests against our own stuff and our competitor's. Most Dealers, certainly reputable ones, generally have good return policies. I would find out specifically what that is and work with someone who will let you get a Pre/pro and see what you think. The great thing is, as soon as you hook one up, it's either better or it's not and then you'll know. When I had my store years ago, we let customers borrow products and take them home over the weekend so we could assist them in getting their biggest bang for the buck - was the easiest sales we ever had. Good luck!

Thanks Chris, I have a great dealer in the area so it should be NP. I am sooo happy I chose your Reference Active line speakers and am glad you guys have dependable service too.

 

[Sleipner]

Chris: When Anthem have units ready for shipping, is there somone at your PR that you could talk to, regarding a AVM70 for a review at Audiosciencereview?
I mean, the small cost for shipping would easily pay for itself if it means that customers like me buys a unit in the end. I know that alot of people that's not active users on this forum, reads these reviews before buying the components. The AVM70 is one of the products alot of people are curious about, but are waiting for a review before pushing the buy button.

 

[cbrents73]

Chris: When Anthem have units ready for shipping, is there somone at your PR that you could talk to, regarding a AVM70 for a review at Audiosciencereview?
I mean, the small cost for shipping would easily pay for itself if it means that customers like me buys a unit in the end. I know that alot of people that's not active users on this forum, reads these reviews before buying the components. The AVM70 is one of the products alot of people are curious about, but are waiting for a review before pushing the buy button.

Hello, I get asked this frequently - I submitted a request to our team a long time ago and I know it appears to be a simple thing on the surface, but there is a LONG line of reviewers all pounding on the door consisting of; online magazines, print magazines, forums, bloggers (independent and corporate) from all over the world - we're sold in 70 countries, so just in Canada and the US alone, there's a ton of press people all trying to get their hands on product as early as possible. There's also not only press for consumers, but multiple trade/industry magazines geared directly toward Dealers that many consumers are unaware of.

It's those that our team knows the best and have long relationships with that are going to be first in line for review product. Unfortunately, Amir may have to get something from a Dealer or a generous forum user after they become available and are in good supply. We understand people can't wait forever and have to make hard decisions and sometimes unfortunately we lose as a result, but we do appreciate your interest and hopefully will have these to market sooner than later. Thank you for reaching out.

 

[TimoJ]

I mean, the small cost for shipping would easily pay for itself if it means that customers like me buys a unit in the end.

Here it might get a bad review/measurements, so why risk it. It's safer to use other reviewers who never give bad reviews...

 

[Sleipner]

Here it might get a bad review/measurements, so why risk it. It's safer to use other reviewers who never give bad reviews...

Well that's true. But me and the others reading on this forum and the other ones I'm active on, don't buy a processor based on those reviews.

If I can't get a good review on the AVM70, I'll end buying the Emotiva or Monoprice, nothing more to that but a loss for Anthem.

 

[witchdoctor]

Here it might get a bad review/measurements, so why risk it. It's safer to use other reviewers who never give bad reviews...

Why not just buy the unit yourself and send it in for a review?