Best AV Processor under $3k? Lexicon MC-10, Anthem AVM 60, or something else?

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

At least we have some action on this thread again.

 

[MrQRO]

Folks,

I must recommend you Do Not waste your $$$$ on the Harman/Lexicon MC-10.
I have moved up through Adcom, Marantz 77xx, and 6mo ago the MC-10....

It sounds amazing if it's a video source like my "Dish Network" source, using my 9.2 Dolby
set-up comprised of all Mirage speakers, with an Altec 816-8A Sub1, and M&K Sub 2, all powered
with Bryston 4/3B amps in stereo, or bridged mono for the center & 2 subs.

However! In every other facet it is a disappointment!

It's documentation is lacking, and incorrect! Features like playing MP3s from a USB/Mem chip do not function.
Using it with a networked streaming server, like MSFT, VLC, or PLEX, is supremely difficult to set-up, and works almost
not at all.

It's UI/Menu system reminds me of a 1980's era Atari video game, has little ability for tailoring, and lacks functions
one expects in 2021. You still need to play finger games with the front panel buttons to access features, like "What is the
current SW/FW build", and it can't be upgraded via the net, you must do it via a USB port (on the REAR of the unit).

Getting their Cust. Svc. people to talk to you is difficult, and when you do, they are only ready to discuss RTFM issues.
Major problems like the USB, and streaming, get replies from their Eng. people like "Not a priority", and that's "Old Tech".

For the HUGE $$$$$ I paid for this unit, I want it to do what is says, and say what it does. It does neither.
A HUGE disappointment!

My Marantz had a few bugs too, and they didn't give a crap either about them, but overall, it actually mostly did
as was advertised, and had a modern UI that a human could use & understand.

Harman/Lexicon may have put a lot of time into video and advance processing of that audio, but otherwise, it's a 1990's
unit that fails everywhere else.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

Folks,

I must recommend you Do Not waste your $$$$ on the Harman/Lexicon MC-10.
I have moved up through Adcom, Marantz 77xx, and 6mo ago the MC-10....

It sounds amazing if it's a video source like my "Dish Network" source, using my 9.2 Dolby
set-up comprised of all Mirage speakers, with an Altec 816-8A Sub1, and M&K Sub 2, all powered
with Bryston 4/3B amps in stereo, or bridged mono for the center & 2 subs.

However! In every other facet it is a disappointment!

It's documentation is lacking, and incorrect! Features like playing MP3s from a USB/Mem chip do not function.
Using it with a networked streaming server, like MSFT, VLC, or PLEX, is supremely difficult to set-up, and works almost
not at all.

It's UI/Menu system reminds me of a 1980's era Atari video game, has little ability for tailoring, and lacks functions
one expects in 2021. You still need to play finger games with the front panel buttons to access features, like "What is the
current SW/FW build", and it can't be upgraded via the net, you must do it via a USB port (on the REAR of the unit).

Getting their Cust. Svc. people to talk to you is difficult, and when you do, they are only ready to discuss RTFM issues.
Major problems like the USB, and streaming, get replies from their Eng. people like "Not a priority", and that's "Old Tech".

For the HUGE $$$$$ I paid for this unit, I want it to do what is says, and say what it does. It does neither.
A HUGE disappointment!

My Marantz had a few bugs too, and they didn't give a crap either about them, but overall, it actually mostly did
as was advertised, and had a modern UI that a human could use & understand.

Harman/Lexicon may have put a lot of time into video and advance processing of that audio, but otherwise, it's a 1990's
unit that fails everywhere else.

Anthem.

 

[MrQRO]

I looked at the specs and manual for the Anthem AVN-60. Honestly, It looks much like the MC-10 except it just doesn't have the items that the MC-10 does that don't work. They definitely seem to have the menu and on-screen stuff down. Otherwise, if you subtract all the stuff from the MC-10 that doesn't work. Same feature set.

Folks, I'm sorry if you think I'm a crotchety, old, fossil... But, for the kind of bucks these Co's are charging for these units. I want:

To be able to play as big of a MP3 playlist as I want, off of as big of a chip as I can, via the front facing USB port. I can do that
with my damn'd stock car stereo, why not a "high end" AV unit?

Internet radio service with decent browsing and pre-selects.

Being able to use a media player from my home PC/Server of my choice, and that I am, and have been using, without needing
to load some proprietary, or special app/pgm, just for this unit.

Set-up my system how I want it, and save it, for every mode! I happen to run Dolby 9.2. That's why I ditched my Marantz.
Every time I moved tween Video, Blu-Ray, USB, It seemed my surround set-up would change and I'd have to re-tune the
system... I dislike tech that thinks its smarter than me, and does what it wants, not what I want.

Use a hard wired IP 10/1000 connection for upgrades, control, everything. I've got a billion things wanting to eat my wireless
bandwidth, give me the option of doing everything wired on my rack mounted equipment please. Also, let me use PC based
tools, not just "phone apps", cuz I don't sit around my living room with my phone, after hours, like a mutant, texting, teenager!

I could go on....... I actually liked my Marantz 7702. It had all the features I wanted. The biggest thing that cheezed me off was that,
as I said above, It kept needing to be readjusted every time I changed modes or sources. I contacted Marantz and they called
it a feature, not a bug. A friend of mine has a newer version, and he has even more issues, so.... Not an option! The MC-10 Really
does sound Amazing in video source mode, but not so much in other modes, plus lacks the features and control I had with the
Marantz.

Anyway, big long story, just to say that. You need to go in person. See if it has the features YOU want & need, sounds good
in the modes You use, don't listen to the hype & wise reviewers, its personal.

I've been a AV geek for 40+ years. I literally have multi-tens of thousands of dollars of equipment racked and stacked in this house.
I'm still trying to find the "perfect system". But, I'm getting close!

 

[Leo05$]

First I would like to thank Amir who started this board. I have been out of touch with audio for a number of years and now that I need a new piece of gear I was excited to come across this site. I am not the kind of guy who upgrades anything but my PC's in any regular cycle. In fact my 20yr old Lexicon DC-1 DTS V4 just died before Christmas. Running Diagnostics it seems that the DTS upgrade card is bad as I am getting an AC3 bus error.

System History:
I also started with ADCOM (GTP-600) but the surround environments sounded like echo chambers. I traded it up getting full value back to a DC-1 THX which I paired with a Rotel RB-985 AMP and a Rotel RT940 tuner. I have always liked efficient speakers that don't require huge power to crank up so Klipsch have always been my speaker choice. My system is only 5.1 with Klipsch Heresy III's up front L/R, RP Center channel and SVS-2000 sub with RB-5 rear surround. All of the audio stores purchased from in the past Kief's, Buzz Jensen's, Sounds like Music are out of business except Crutchfield. I am interested in replacing my DC-1 but I have grown very fond of the surround environments (Panorama, Music Logic, Logic 7 and TV Matrix). After reading many reviews on the MC-10, Anthem AVM-70 and Monolith HTP-1 I am not really convinced which system might reproduce the sound I spent many hours fine tuning on my DC-1 with tape measure and Radio Shack SPL meter. This was well before the days of iPhone or Android with built in apps for sound and auto tuning with DIRAC and Mic's. My music tastes vary widely from AC/DC to Yes and Pink Floyd, Parsons project, 80's rock and Fresh Aire. I believe that Music and Sound quality is very subjective, I've spent almost 30yrs working in a very loud Industrial environment and have even ruptured an ear drum in a diving accident so my hearing is not top notch but I know what I like and know how I like an AC/DC track to sound -vs- Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon. As you can see from my equipment I don't replace things very often, my goal is to reproduce/improve what I had with the DC-1. I am also considering replacing the RB-985, although it hasn't skipped a beat in 20yrs until the day my DC1 failed to exit the Diagnostic Loop at startup, it just needs an new SS-Processor to feed it some Music. Feed back is much appreciated. Thx.

 

[Leo05$]

First I would like to thank Amir who started this board. I have been out of touch with audio for a number of years and now that I need a new piece of gear I was excited to come across this site. I am not the kind of guy who upgrades anything but my PC's in any regular cycle. In fact my 20yr old Lexicon DC-1 DTS V4 just died before Christmas. Running Diagnostics it seems that the DTS upgrade card is bad as I am getting an AC3 bus error.

System History:
I also started with ADCOM (GTP-600) but the surround environments sounded like echo chambers. I traded it up getting full value back to a DC-1 THX which I paired with a Rotel RB-985 AMP and a Rotel RT940 tuner. I have always liked efficient speakers that don't require huge power to crank up so Klipsch have always been my speaker choice. My system is only 5.1 with Klipsch Heresy III's up front L/R, RP Center channel and SVS-2000 sub with RB-5 rear surround. All of the audio stores purchased from in the past Kief's, Buzz Jensen's, Sounds like Music are out of business except Crutchfield. I am interested in replacing my DC-1 but I have grown very fond of the surround environments (Panorama, Music Logic, Logic 7 and TV Matrix). After reading many reviews on the MC-10, Anthem AVM-70 and Monolith HTP-1 I am not really convinced which system might reproduce the sound I spent many hours fine tuning on my DC-1 with tape measure and Radio Shack SPL meter. This was well before the days of iPhone or Android with built in apps for sound and auto tuning with DIRAC and Mic's. My music tastes vary widely from AC/DC to Yes and Pink Floyd, Parsons project, 80's rock and Fresh Aire. I believe that Music and Sound quality is very subjective, I've spent almost 30yrs working in a very loud Industrial environment and have even ruptured an ear drum in a diving accident so my hearing is not top notch but I know what I like and know how I like an AC/DC track to sound -vs- Pink Floyd Dark Side of the Moon. As you can see from my equipment I don't replace things very often, my goal is to reproduce/improve what I had with the DC-1. I am also considering replacing the RB-985, although it hasn't skipped a beat in 20yrs until the day my DC1 failed to exit the Diagnostic Loop at startup, it just needs an new SS-Processor to feed it some Music. Feed back is much appreciated. Thx.

One more thing about me, I hate Windows. All my home PC's run Linux so I like to be able to tweak things and create my own custom configurations. I am not happy with Microsoft telling me how my desktop should look, feel or work and I refuse to give them all my data so they can supposedly improve Windows by collecting Telemetry. Apple, while much more secure and stable doesn't allow much tweaking so I am thinking that the Monolith is better suited for me. I did read the HTP-1 testing review on this site so I have concerns with how this unit performed.

 

[Hart]

Thank you Chris!

I did manage to update the software, I feel rather smug about it.

But I was afraid dealing with ARC Genesis. The MRX520 was set up by the dealer using a PC. I only have Macs. Also, the router is in a different room and I don't have an ethernet cable long enough. Can I connect the ethernet straight to my Mac?

Thanks, you were very helpful!

Anthem now works with Mac.

 

[Leo05$]

Wow, I was kinda hoping someone could give some feedback. I know my current surround is 20yrs out of date but the DC-1 was way ahead of every other home theater company back in 1995. No other company had a plug in slot for upgrades. There has to be at least one person on this web site who owned a DC-1 or DC-2 in the past and has the correct frame of reference for my question. Looking at HTP-1, Anthem AVM-70, RSP-1576MKII. Hit me with any and all opinions. Auditioning gear in person is not practical in today's world. I never really believed it was truly valid unless your room was exactly the same as audio showroom anyway.

 

[Leo05$]

Wow, I was kinda hoping someone could give some feedback. I know my current surround is 20yrs out of date but the DC-1 was way ahead of every other home theater company back in 1995. No other company had a plug in slot for upgrades. There has to be at least one person on this web site who owned a DC-1 or DC-2 in the past and has the correct frame of reference for my question. Looking at HTP-1, Anthem AVM-70, RSP-1576MKII. Hit me with any and all opinions. Auditioning gear in person is not practical in today's world. I never really believed it was truly valid unless your room was exactly the same as audio showroom anyway.

I really value quality H/W. If a piece of electronics dies within a 5yr period it is junk! The caps/resistors are not precision, the thermal envelope is poorly designed or the designer is wrapping marginal devices into a fancy package. My Lexicon lasted 21yrs with not a single problem, disposable may be acceptable to some of you but not to me and by the looks at some of the Urban landfills across the planet we are really screwed on this big blue ball if we don't reverse course. Cheers!

 

[Beershaun]

Hi, Welcome to the forum. Check out Amir's Electronics index and filter it by av/processors. You can get a ranking of all the AVRs he's reviewed to get a sense of which are properly engineered and which are not.

The Denon's are the only ones that seem to be reasonably well engineered at this point.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_Equipment_Reviews/

The best performing Denon is the AVR-x8500. The AVR-**700 series has shown improvement over previous generations where as many other brands that Amir has measured continue to show problems generation over generation.

 

[ArturoKiwi]

Unlucky Amirm still didn't review the new Anthem AV70 and 90

 

[Leo05$]

Hi, Welcome to the forum. Check out Amir's Electronics index and filter it by av/processors. You can get a ranking of all the AVRs he's reviewed to get a sense of which are properly engineered and which are not.

The Denon's are the only ones that seem to be reasonably well engineered at this point.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/Audio_Equipment_Reviews/

The best performing Denon is the AVR-x8500. The AVR-**700 series has shown improvement over previous generations where as many other brands that Amir has measured continue to show problems generation over generation.

Thanks, I already looked through it. Unfortunately the really high scoring products are out of my price point. I'm curious, I haven't seen anyone answer a question I posed about music surround environments. I am looking for something that might be able to generate some of the custom music environments my DC-1 has. Any thoughts?

 

[Chrispy]

Unlucky Amirm still didn't review the new Anthem AV70 and 90

Do you expect drastic/significant differences from the 60?

 

[JSmith]

The lexicon mc-10 is a rebadged arcam

It seems Lexicon just run a re-badge business... how they even survived after the Oppo BDP-83 rebadge affair is beyond me. Paying a premium for their case and logo must be something people enjoy.



JSmith

 

[Dj7675]

I really value quality H/W. If a piece of electronics dies within a 5yr period it is junk! The caps/resistors are not precision, the thermal envelope is poorly designed or the designer is wrapping marginal devices into a fancy package. My Lexicon lasted 21yrs with not a single problem, disposable may be acceptable to some of you but not to me and by the looks at some of the Urban landfills across the planet we are really screwed on this big blue ball if we don't reverse course. Cheers!

Longevity is a tough one. I would get a Denon x3700 and a fan to make sure it stays cool if not in a completely open environment. The HTP1 is a very tempting device but monoprice doesn’t have a long track record in this space, so who knows.

 

[Beershaun]

Thanks, I already looked through it. Unfortunately the really high scoring products are out of my price point. I'm curious, I haven't seen anyone answer a question I posed about music surround environments. I am looking for something that might be able to generate some of the custom music environments my DC-1 has. Any thoughts?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the music surround environment
But I know you can use the audessey app to tweak the room correction target curves to your personal preference. And I believe you can now save 2 different audessey settings and switch between them. Aside from the various standard effects available on the Denon, like all channel stereo, and stadium, hall etc.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dmholdings.AudysseyMultEq

 

[Vasr]

Longevity is a tough one. ... The HTP1 is a very tempting device but monoprice doesn’t have a long track record in this space, so who knows.

This is misplaced doubt I think.

Monoprice is the brand marketeer for the device. So longevity of the support and updates would be Monoprice's responsibility. They have been in the business of high end audio (HTP-1 is just the latest ones in the line) with Monolith line for more than a decade and have demonstrated very responsive and generous support and customer service. So, there is no reason to suspect that would suddenly end (not to be compared to their disposable cheap stuff), not any more than NAD or Paradigm, etc (let alone any of the garage shop Class D vendors).

The unit itself is made by ATI who have been in the business for a long time with excellent reputation. They would be the people behind the longevity expectations in terms of component quality and durability. They have a reputation for equipment that is solidly built to last. Between themselves and their acquisitions (Datasat, Theta Digital and BGW brands) I would say they have enough expertise in this domain as well.

The unit also seems to have been designed with the ability to do far more with firmware updates and hardware upgradability than other comparable devices (this is what I have gathered from reading at several places so don't have a specific link to point to), so unlike the Japanese brands, the units aren't necessarily going to get obsolete within a year or two. Short product cycles aren't built into their business model like the other mass market brands.

 

[Dj7675]

This is misplaced doubt I think.

Monoprice is the brand marketeer for the device. So longevity of the support and updates would be Monoprice's responsibility. They have been in the business of high end audio (HTP-1 is just the latest ones in the line) with Monolith line for more than a decade and have demonstrated very responsive and generous support and customer service. So, there is no reason to suspect that would suddenly end (not to be compared to their disposable cheap stuff), not any more than NAD or Paradigm, etc (let alone any of the garage shop Class D vendors).

The unit itself is made by ATI who have been in the business for a long time with excellent reputation. They would be the people behind the longevity expectations in terms of component quality and durability. They have a reputation for equipment that is solidly built to last. Between themselves and their acquisitions (Datasat, Theta Digital and BGW brands) I would say they have enough expertise in this domain as well.

The unit also seems to have been designed with the ability to do far more with firmware updates and hardware upgradability than other comparable devices (this is what I have gathered from reading at several places so don't have a specific link to point to), so unlike the Japanese brands, the units aren't necessarily going to get obsolete within a year or two. Short product cycles aren't built into their business model like the other mass market brands.

Appreciate the viewpoint and info. From reading the various forum posts, they seem to be one of the only ones to be able to offer a stable Dirac 16 channel processor. They must be doing something right.

 

[Leo05$]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the music surround environment
But I know you can use the audessey app to tweak the room correction target curves to your personal preference. And I believe you can now save 2 different audessey settings and switch between them. Aside from the various standard effects available on the Denon, like all channel stereo, and stadium, hall etc.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dmholdings.AudysseyMultEq

I have attached the Theory and Design Document from the DC-1. I am fairly sure there isn't a single current Mfg including Lexicon that provides such a detailed guide about how their system works. I looked through the Rotel, the current MC12 and Denon Docs but none of them had documents like this.

 

[Leo05$]

I have attached the Theory and Design Document from the DC-1. I am fairly sure there isn't a single current Mfg including Lexicon that provides such a detailed guide about how their system works. I looked through the Rotel, the current MC12 and Denon Docs but none of them had documents like this.

In fact the Monolith HTP-1 is the only unit that had in my opinion such a detailed setup guide.