Could an "evidence based" HiFi retailer ever be commercially viable?

[MattHooper]

Couldn't agree more. I personally have a soft spot for retro Audi Research-style design, stuff looking as something made for important measurements preparing for the Apollo program.

Interesting, that's exactly the type of aesthetic that doesn't appeal to me. (And one reason Audio Research gear has never found a spot in my systems). I generally loath the professional rack-mount look. But this is just one more reason why a variety of options is important.
(And similarly, why I value a variety of speaker designs being produced not all of which are designed via the Harman Kardon model).

 

[watchnerd]

Yup, there is really no putting the rabbit back in the hat. My employer owns a shopping centre. I wince everytime we look at footfall/ profitability/ expected rents etc.

I would have thought going forwards the only places that could sustain "good" hifi shops would be densely populated conurbations (in terms of footfall and customer base) but then the rents would cripple. Maybe as loss leaders/ ambassadors for a larger online presence perhaps, with kit shipped in for pre arranged auditions etc. But at that point, youre better off employing a half competent person with a van to drive such kit to customer property for an in situ demo period.

So the conclusion of this thread is:

Commercially viable hi fi retailers, evidence-based or not, are already a dying breed.

Thus, the answer to thread is:

"No"

/thread closed

 

[sergeauckland]

Interesting, that's exactly the type of aesthetic that doesn't appeal to me. (And one reason Audio Research gear has never found a spot in my systems). I generally loath the professional rack-mount look. But this is just one more reason why a variety of options is important.
(And similarly, why I value a variety of speaker designs being produced not all of which are designed via the Harman Kardon model).

Strange isn't, how people differ. If I can't screw it into a 19" rack, I won't buy it. All my non rack-mount kit like the SBT are on a 19" rack shelf.

I really don't want to have stuff on shelves if it can be screwed into a rack.

S.

 

[CDMC]

At least that's our goal:
https://www.vera-audio.com/philosophy.php

I like your amp layout and design.

 

[Colonel Bogey]

So the conclusion of this thread is:

Commercially viable hi fi retailers, evidence-based or not, are already a dying breed.

Thus, the answer to thread is:

"No"

/thread closed

Would you say this goes for online as well or only brick-and-mortar?

 

[watchnerd]

Would you say this goes for online as well or only brick-and-mortar?

Online sellers have more capability to sell low margin / high volume evidence-based products and still survive.

See Blue Jeans cables.

 

[Sal1950]

So the conclusion of this thread is:
Commercially viable hi fi retailers, evidence-based or not, are already a dying breed.

The model right now, (pre covid) is the residential based dealers. Guys with a decent sized living space using the living room, a spare bedroom or two, etc; to demo a few systems. It appears to me that some very high end companies condone and support this approach, surprises me a bit.
I did the same thing with a motorcycle service and parts sale company back in the 80s but it was difficult. I had to fake and forge all sort of things to get my suppliers signed up, they wanted to see a store front, business license, tax license, etc to get onboard as a dealer? It does work very well, your overhead for rent, utilities, etc is very low but you do have to walk a fine line. I kept a very low profile with the neighbors as I was right in the middle of the inner city of Chicago and the city fathers have a dim view of doing things like that. I did get a state sales tax license and kept that and my income taxes, etc; all above board and on the books, federal jail is no place to be. LOL

 

[Jimbob54]

The model right now, (pre covid) is the residential based dealers. Guys with a decent sized living space using the living room, a spare bedroom or two, etc; to demo a few systems. It appears to me that some very high end companies condone and support this approach, surprises me a bit.
I did the same thing with a motorcycle service and parts sale company back in the 80s but it was difficult. I had to fake and forge all sort of things to get my suppliers signed up, they wanted to see a store front, business license, tax license, etc to get onboard as a dealer? It does work very well, your overhead for rent, utilities, etc is very low but you do have to walk a fine line. I kept a very low profile with the neighbors as I was right in the middle of the inner city of Chicago and the city fathers have a dim view of doing things like that. I did get a state sales tax license and kept that and my income taxes, etc; all above board and on the books, federal jail is no place to be. LOL

Hi-fi Monday to Friday, hosting "parties" at weekends

 

[watchnerd]

The model right now, (pre covid) is the residential based dealers. Guys with a decent sized living space using the living room, a spare bedroom or two, etc; to demo a few systems. It appears to me that some very high end companies condone and support this approach, surprises me a bit.
I did the same thing with a motorcycle service and parts sale company back in the 80s but it was difficult. I had to fake and forge all sort of things to get my suppliers signed up, they wanted to see a store front, business license, tax license, etc to get onboard as a dealer? It does work very well, your overhead for rent, utilities, etc is very low but you do have to walk a fine line. I kept a very low profile with the neighbors as I was right in the middle of the inner city of Chicago and the city fathers have a dim view of doing things like that. I did get a state sales tax license and kept that and my income taxes, etc; all above board and on the books, federal jail is no place to be. LOL

Yeah, before we recently got an authorized Dynaudio dealer in Seattle, I bought my Contour 20 from some guy working out of his garage.

It was a competitive price, but there was an air of sketchiness to it all and he had some issues getting product.

I can't imagine the hassle of trying to do a return or warranty through him.

 

[Sal1950]

I can't imagine the hassle of trying to do a return or warranty through him.

Yea you have to be careful they are not grey market products or B line being sold as new, etc.
But the legit ones are growing in numbers rapidly.
Caveat emptor

 

[restorer-john]

Retail is dying (as it needs to, considering the inefficiency innate with it).

And is being replaced with what? The 21st century equivalent of the the door to door salesman? That's what online is. I've never bought a thing through Amazon and probably never will. I personally don't care one iota for what other people think of a product (reviews) and I place great value in the sales process from start to finish.

Like everything sales related, it goes full circle and has done forever. People go on about uber eats/air tasker and home delivery being "disruptors" when they are absolutely nothing of the sort. My father had the butcher, baker, grocer, gardener etc all deliver or provide services to their home when he was a boy in the 1930/40s. Personalized shopping was the norm. The lady of the house picked up the phone and the butcher turned up at the back door.

Retail is cyclic. The death of the mall/high street results in online (the equivalent of catalog in the early 20th century), and soon after, people will tire of the stuff that doesn't fit, doesn't meet standard or doesn't offer something unique and they will search out the places where they get personal service and exclusive product again. The boutiques will open, the specialists will return and the skills in sales and service will be required again.

We are in the lowest cost, least interesting, least personal, lowest standard of customer service part of the cycle.

 

[Doodski]

And is being replaced with what? The 21st century equivalent of the the door to door salesman? That's what online is. I've never bought a thing from Amazon and probably never will. I personally don't care one iota for what other people think of a product (reviews) and I place great value in the sales process from start to finish.

Like everything sales related, it goes full circle and has done forever. People go on about uber eats/air tasker and home delivery being "disruptors" when they are absolutely nothing of the sort. My father had the butcher, baker, grocer, gardener etc all deliver or provide services to their home when he was a boy in the 1930/40s. Personalized shopping was the norm. The lady of the house picked up the phone and the butcher turned up at the back door.

Retail is cyclic. The death of the mall results in online (the equivalent of catalog in the early 20th century), and soon after, people will tire of the stuff that doesn't fit, doesn't meet standard or doesn't offer something unique and they will search out the places where they get personal service and exclusive product again. The boutiques will open, the specialists will return and the skills in sales and service will be required again.

We are in the lowest cost, least interesting, least personal, lowest standard of customer service part of the cycle.

I hope you are right. I really enjoyed lots of my 9 years as a retailer home audio specialist. Some great people there! I calculated and estimated that I've handled slightly less than a million peeps in my retail experience. From meeting and greeting to closing and invoicing. They ad up.

 

[restorer-john]

I hope you are right. I really enjoyed lots of my 9 years as a retailer home audio specialist.

Let's not be so naive to think it will all come back again tomorrow- it won't. HiFi retailing will be one of the last to return and probably will never reach the heights of service, range, quality and competition, as it did in the 80s, 90s and 00s.

I too enjoyed my time in audio retailing, but that was a long time ago now. You always move onward and upward in sales.

 

[Doodski]

Let's not be so naive to think it will all come back again tomorrow- it won't. HiFi retailing will be one of the last to return and probably will never reach the heights of service, range, quality and competition, as it did in the 80s, 90s and 00s.

I too enjoyed my time in audio retailing, but that was a long time ago now. You always move onward and upward in sales.

The sales occupation makes one only as good as yesterday or last months sales figures. I always found that stressful but it was the driver. I was addicted to formal clothing, the recognition from my peers and the constant sales meetings and dinners we had. I would do it again.

 

[egellings]

I see sales of items like cigarettes more damaging to the buyer than sales of cable snake oil, since health gets involved with tobacco. Cables won't ruin your health although they may damage that of your wallet. I look at the cable biz as similar to the homeopathy biz. People pay good money for no active ingredient, as that has to be diluted to near or complete nonexistence in a homeopathic product. Yet the true believers keep buying homeopathic stuff even when they know it contains no active ingredient. It's all about belief. As for the cables, I remember a movie scene where a snob beer fan bragged about his taste for Heineken (a good beer), and his drinking buddy shouts, "Heineken? F**k that! Pabst Blue Ribbon!". That put PBR on the hipster map. Identifying with a brand can be a powerful motivator, and cables sound closer to the same than the flavors of the two beers taste.

 

[Doodski]

I see sales of items like cigarettes more damaging to the buyer than sales of cable snake oil, since health gets involved with tobacco. Cables won't ruin your health although they may damage that of your wallet. I look at the cable biz as similar to the homeopathy biz. People pay good money for no active ingredient, as that has to be diluted to near or complete nonexistence in a homeopathic product. Yet the true believers keep buying homeopathic stuff even when they know it contains no active ingredient. It's all about belief. As for the cables, I remember a movie scene where a snob beer fan bragged about his taste for Heineken (a good beer), and his drinking buddy shouts, "Heineken? F**k that! Pabst Blue Ribbon!". That put PBR on the hipster map. Identifying with a brand can be a powerful motivator, and cables sound closer to the same than the flavors of the two beers taste.

I've never had a Pabst Blue Ribbon and as a intermittent in-and-out smoker from age of 6(long story) to about 10 years ago I can testify that it is a horrible habit to quit. I attempted many times. Thankfully the doctor had a Rx that enabled me to quit prontO. Best Rx I've ever had. I feel so much more energized now compared to self medicating with lung-busters. Food tastes better too. I still buy some legal cannabis from time to time when I want to relax and listen to some tunes.

 

[egellings]

Cannabis seems to widen the sound stage for me when I listen.

 

[Sal1950]

I was addicted to formal clothing, the recognition from my peers and the constant sales meetings and dinners we had. I would do it again.

DUDE, you've lost it. Living in the suit and tie pressure cooker is worse for your health than the smokes.
It's like being addicted to coke or meth, the adrenaline rush feels great but will take you out sooner or later.

 

[Doodski]

Cannabis seems to widen the sound stage for me when I listen.

It's so much more interactive and much more pleasing. Rush sounds better too!

 

[Doodski]

DUDE, you've lost it. Living in the suit and tie pressure cooker is worse for your health than the smokes.
It's like being addicted to coke or meth, the adrenaline rush feels great but will take you out sooner or later.

Yeah I was addicted...lol