Could an "evidence based" HiFi retailer ever be commercially viable?

[Colonel Bogey]

In my country, I know of about 10 different small retailers and one chain w several stores carrying mid/high end HiFi. These all combine physical stores with online sales. Sadly, all of them seem to market various "snake oil" products like cable lifters etc and make preposterous claims about these.

Imagine a store that markets stuff in different price ranges, with different designs and sound characteristics but refrains from selling stuff based on audiophoolery and pseudoscience? Are there such retailers internationally? Is the audience for evidence based audio too small? Or is there simply too much money to make on magic power cords?

Personally, I would to favor a store with some sort of manifesto stating their view on audiophoolery and committing to a minimum standard of verifiable claims in the products they sell. Interestingly, the stores I know selling music production/PA/DJ stuff are free from pseudoscience as far as I have seen. But I guess few consumers go there to buy their stereo.

 

[Doodski]

The accessorization of customers and clients is a age old pursuit and that includes power cables, speaker cables, interconnects and cable lifters. The retailers look at the margins on the stuff and make decisions accordingly. I retailed for 9 years but we where not exclusively high end esoteric and didn't carry much in the way except Monster Cable and maybe some other mainline brand name cable stuff. We wondered about the snake oil stuff and some of it gave us some good laughs and giggles around the coffee machine.

 

[Jimbob54]

I'd say no. Physical retailers of all stripes are suffering so much already. To not sell high margin, easy to store paraphernalia that is pretty easy to offload onto customers of the main components is daft.

 

[pozz]

Maybe local distribution through an online storefront would work.

 

[digitalfrost]

I have very good an honest Hifi dealer available who gives great discounts to normal people. I think without the people buying expensive cables, he wouldn't be able to afford that. You know, it's kinda like with taxes. Rich people paying a lot of the taxes effectively lowers taxes for poor people.
As long as they're not getting scammed out of their money and they're happy paying a lot of money for bullshit items, really it's a crime without victims.

 

[Doodski]

I have very good an honest Hifi dealer available who gives great discounts to normal people. I think without the people buying expensive cables, he wouldn't be able to afford that. You know, it's kinda like with taxes. Rich people paying a lot of the taxes effectively lowers taxes for poor people.
As long as they're not getting scammed out of their money and they're happy paying a lot of money for bullshit items, really it's a crime without victims.

Funny enough the customers oftentimes want the cables thrown in on the deal(s) because they know those are the high margin products and the dealers push them after they have already maxed out the customers' budget. The dealers try their best to not do that.

 

[DuxServit]

I think it’s only possible if (a) there is an agreed standard for measurements and reporting, and (b) there is a Consumer Advocacy entity that has legal power, as means of consumer legal resort.

ASR is paving the way for (a). But as to (b), it depends on the country and legal jurisdiction, population size, business climate.

The reality is that the majority of users today listen using mobile devices (electronics) which are general-purpose and have very good performance. The market for hi-fi specific products is tiny.

 

[Duke]

I think it’s only possible if (a) there is an agreed standard for measurements and reporting, and (b) there is a Consumer Advocacy entity that has legal power, as means of consumer legal resort.

I'd have no problem with a consumer advocacy group or some other organization "certifying" that products meet their standards. Sort of like "THX Certified". Seems to me the most highly qualified group to establish standards would be the Audio Engineering Society.

But I would have a major problem with government legislation which criminalizes innovation. For instance, apparently Harman's Spinorama is something like 87% accurate in predicting listener preference. That's great, but it does not justify criminalizing an innovative design which falls into the other 13%.

And I really would rather not see "industry insiders" become the legal gate-keepers. For instance, in Louisiana you have to pass a floral arrangement test to become a licensed florist. Do you know who is in charge of administering and grading this test? People who have big successful floral businesses. Do you think they want competition? Of course not. And so they expand their own businesses and approve their insider friends and flunk everybody else.

 

[sergeauckland]

I know of one such dealer, Dear Keith of this parish, who manages to keep going without a plethora of snake-oil products.

How he does it I don't know, as I didn't, when I tried, but maybe he's just better at it than I was.

For his pains, he gets roundly ridiculed on other forums he's brave (or foolish) enough to participate in.

S.

 

[Zensō]

Seems highly unlikely. Traditional HiFi retail is a fast shrinking niche. As mentioned above, interest and dollars are already moving to personal/mobile audio and online/direct purchases.

 

[Sal1950]

I must hand it to our friend here, Keith @Purité Audio in London, he doesn't promote or sell any phoolery and says so right up front.
I'm sure it cuts back on his potential bottom line but you sometimes pay a price for integrity.
https://www.puriteaudio.co.uk/about

 

[Tks]

Sure, but the way it would be viable would require more work than the store itself (you'd basically have to be living in a population that cared about store fronts anymore, and informed enough to the degree they knew what they were being sold). But that requires an education push. Good luck with that.

The other issue is, audio would have to market things aside from performance (because we've surpassed human acuity for all intents and purposes currently). It would require augmentation with secondary industries (like Virtual Reality, or games, or movies), and be able to see dedicated hardware for processing (think, something like ray-tracing but for audio).

You'd basically need novelties. Selling simply SINAD climbers won't do it - you're going to need more complimentary gear. But once you start doing that, you're getting into Best Buy or franchise territory that sells whole bunch of items anyway.

Retail is dying (as it needs to, considering the inefficiency innate with it). If your service can be online managed, it will go that way eventually. Luxury sectors seem slightly immune currently (because they sell something online cant; an experience or something to that effect).

 

[Sal1950]

Retail is dying (as it needs to, considering the inefficiency innate with it).

OUCH

 

[anmpr1]

Hi Fi in most places has to be a losing proposition. When I was growing up in a mid sized USA town there were at least a dozen stereo shops. You could get anything and everything. It is interesting to see the evolution (or devolution) of the business. A lot of stores stopped selling 'mainstream' Japanese brands because mail order outfits undercut locals. Some stores went in to aftermarket car audio. Then came big electronic sellers like Circuit City and Best Buy. Eventually only one 'high end' store was left. But they morphed into home theater installations, to include lighting, home automation, security, and other 'connected' items. Don't even have a storefront. They 'meet' with 'clients' by appointment and work out whatever...

As much as I detest the cable scene, it's got to be a sure money maker for stores. Selling wire for outrageous prices. I hold my highest disregard and disgust for the hi-fi press that carnival barks for the cable 'industry'.

 

[March Audio]

In my country, I know of about 10 different small retailers and one chain w several stores carrying mid/high end HiFi. These all combine physical stores with online sales. Sadly, all of them seem to market various "snake oil" products like cable lifters etc and make preposterous claims about these.

Imagine a store that markets stuff in different price ranges, with different designs and sound characteristics but refrains from selling stuff based on audiophoolery and pseudoscience? Are there such retailers internationally? Is the audience for evidence based audio too small? Or is there simply too much money to make on magic power cords?

Personally, I would to favor a store with some sort of manifesto stating their view on audiophoolery and committing to a minimum standard of verifiable claims in the products they sell. Interestingly, the stores I know selling music production/PA/DJ stuff are free from pseudoscience as far as I have seen. But I guess few consumers go there to buy their stereo.

Physical hifi retailers are a dying breed. From a manufacturers POV their significant cut is something I have to add to the price of the product or find in production cost savings. To do so makes it impossible to compete with online only retailer manufacturers. So that's why we don't have distributirs/retailers (we'll apart from Keith). Also physical retailers can only carry a small range of products compared to what's available online, so from a customer choice perspective it's a limitation. People have become quite used to buying online, but there will always be a market (if a diminishing one) who want the personal service of visiting a dealer.

From my perspective there certainly is a market interested in the "no bullshit" approach. My customers tell me this every day. However the market for snake oil products is huge, there are plenty that buy into it so there is big money to be made. If it's from a purely business perspective then it makes sense to tap into it. It depends on why you are doing it and what your business ethics are.

 

[Sal1950]

However the market for snake oil products is huge, there are plenty that buy into it so there is big money to be made. If it's from a purely business perspective then it makes sense to tap into it. It depends on why you are doing it and what your business ethics are.

High End Audio has become dominated by world wide clones of this character,
The Flim-Flam Man, Mordecai C. Jones – a self-styled "M.B.S., C.S., D.D. – Master of Back-Stabbing, Cork-Screwing and Dirty-Dealing!
LOL

 

[watchnerd]

In my country, I know of about 10 different small retailers and one chain w several stores carrying mid/high end HiFi. These all combine physical stores with online sales. Sadly, all of them seem to market various "snake oil" products like cable lifters etc and make preposterous claims about these.

Imagine a store that markets stuff in different price ranges, with different designs and sound characteristics but refrains from selling stuff based on audiophoolery and pseudoscience? Are there such retailers internationally? Is the audience for evidence based audio too small? Or is there simply too much money to make on magic power cords?

Personally, I would to favor a store with some sort of manifesto stating their view on audiophoolery and committing to a minimum standard of verifiable claims in the products they sell. Interestingly, the stores I know selling music production/PA/DJ stuff are free from pseudoscience as far as I have seen. But I guess few consumers go there to buy their stereo.

This sounds like a terrible way to make money.

And it's hard to pay rent on a brick and mortar store without making money.

 

[watchnerd]

Physical hifi retailers are a dying breed. From a manufacturers POV their significant cut is something I have to add to the price of the product or find in production cost savings. To do so makes it impossible to compete with online only retailer manufacturers. So that's why we don't have distributirs/retailers (we'll apart from Keith). Also physical retailers can only carry a small range of products compared to what's available online, so from a customer choice perspective it's a limitation. People have become used to buying online, but there will always be a market (if a diminishing one) who want the personal service of visiting a dealer.

I have a ridiculous example of inventory and online vs physical.

The new NAD M33 is out.

I contacted my local NAD Masters dealer to ask if they had a demo unit in stock. Not only did they say no (okay, it's new), they asked me if I wanted to order one through their store.

When I said I was hoping to see it in person before purchase, and that if I wanted to buy sight-unseen I could just buy it online, they basically (politely) told me to go buy it online if I didn't want to order through them.

What's the point of having a local dealer if that's the situation?

 

[CDMC]

I have very good an honest Hifi dealer available who gives great discounts to normal people. I think without the people buying expensive cables, he wouldn't be able to afford that. You know, it's kinda like with taxes. Rich people paying a lot of the taxes effectively lowers taxes for poor people.
As long as they're not getting scammed out of their money and they're happy paying a lot of money for bullshit items, really it's a crime without victims.

I would go a step further and say that as long as the dealer isn’t promoting the bs, it is not a crime. People buy more expensive goods all the time because they believe more expensive automatically = better. If a consumer is not willing to spend any time to learn about what they are purchasing that is on them. The problem becomes, what does an honest dealer say when asked why the $500 cables are better than $20. I think they get stuck there when the honest objective answer is prettier and possibly better construction. Many also believe they do make a difference so are not lying when they say they are better (in their opinion). Again, I think it falls back on the consumer.

 

[CDMC]

Retail is dying (as it needs to, considering the inefficiency innate with it). If your service can be online managed, it will go that way eventually. Luxury sectors seem slightly immune currently (because they sell something online cant; an experience or something to that effect).

I would modify it to be: "Traditional retail is dying and the current epidemic is speeding up the process." Likely going forward the remaining retail will be either 1) large, box type stores like Target, Walmart, Costco, etc., that have the volume to justify their stores and provide pricing that appeals to price sensitive consumers, and 2) small, high end boutique stores that provide ease and service to consumers who are not price sensitive and/or value the convenience over the increased price.