Geshelli Archel2 Headphone AMP Review: another champ?

[gikigill]

A long time ago with my old analyzer I think.

How about re-doing it again with the new rig.

I quite enjoyed the ruckus it created at Headfi with people running to defend Schitt and how one of the mods, kwkarth essentially quit his position.

He was a staunch defender of Schitt and ended up as the sacrificial lamb.

 

[gikigill]

You don't need JDS Labs for that. NwAvguy's blog is still up. I usually tell people to read his blog first before exploring the audiophile world.

http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/

What I meant was if the BOM is still the same or not. Massdrop and others are offering O2 with replacement parts.

JDS Labs just came through to advise they are using the original BOM for their O2 except the power plug.

 

[amirm]

How about re-doing it again with the new rig.

Actually, I found it and it is with my new analyzer: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...be-hybrid-cth-and-jds-o2-headphone-amps.3928/

 

[gikigill]

Thank you Amir. Its the JDS Labs one too that I,m looking to purchase.

 

[amirm]

Thank you Amir. Its the JDS Labs one too that I,m looking to purchase.

It is the JDS version.

 

[trl]

I will replace with a couple of these. Only €288 each.
View attachment 36436

Good one!

Testing if a cap is good or not when used in front of the input stage of an amplifier is quite easy:
- 1) Get/borrow a dual spot oscilloscope.
- 2) Get/borrow a square-wave signal generator (most scopes are already having built-in generators). Do not use a DAC as a square-wave generator, it will not work properly!
- 3) Feed the amp with 1V RMS square-waves at 20Hz and measure the output of the amplifier with your scope (1...2V RMS on outputs should do). On the same screen measure the output of the signal generator. Do a print screen or photo of both spots plotted on the screen. The two plots will probably not superimpose due to the very low 20Hz used, unless input caps are having a huge value or the amplifier is DC-coupled (but this test makes no sense now).
- 4) Do the above measurements for 50Hz and 100Hz. The two in/out plots should superimpose, at least for the 100Hz; otherwise the cap is having a lower value than needed or is of a questionable quality.
- 5) Swap the input capacitor with an "audiophile" one and do the above steps again. Now compare the print screens and check how the square-waves look like for both capacitors.
- 6) Optionally step: short-circuit the input capacitor, you can use a short wire or an isolated clipper or simply do it with a screw driver directly on the back of the PCB. Just don't use any headphones or speakers connected on outputs; use resistors instead, if needed.

I doubt there will be any difference between a regular WIMA MKP capacitor and an audiophile one when used on amplifier's input.

 

[restorer-john]

I wrote an email to Bryston about this two years ago when one of their amps I had just about saved up for had a price jump of 17% in one year. The exact same amp. Not a upgrade but the exact same amp! The bloody things are made in Peterborough, a dinky little town across the lake from Syracuse.

So, did they come to the party and offer you a better deal or did they stick to their guns quoting "supply chain cost imposts affecting their bottom line and wage growth pressures etc"?

 

[Wombat]

Fine. If you want to put it that way. Then I'll tell. I'm going to collaborate with topping to develop next generation of A30 at the end of this year. Pricing is aim at 150 dollars range. BOM is even lower than Atom. And performance is better than THX 887. There may be another 300 dollar model. Just wait and see. It will destroy.

Loose lips sink chips.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Loose lips sink chips.

 

[solderdude]

The Geshelli Dac and Amps are expertly painted and offered in the color of your choice as well as clear or smoked front and rear panels and they are built better than you might think.

The enclosures are DIY extruded aluminium enclosures that are available in many different sizes. They aren't painted at all but anodized and one can get those enclosures in the few colors that the enclosure manufacturer offers. Usually, blank, black, red and blue or red+blue = purple.

examples:

An idea for them would be to offer a nicely machined and silk-screened aluminium front panel for just $ 10.- more. I am quite sure it could increase sales quite a bit. Some are put off by front-rear panels.

 

[JohnYang1997]

The enclosures are DIY extruded aluminium enclosures that are available in many different sizes. They aren't painted at all but anodized and one can get those enclosures in the few colors that the enclosure manufacturer offers. Usually, blank, black, red and blue or red+blue = purple.

examples:

View attachment 36501

An idea for them would be to offer a nicely machined and silk-screened aluminium front panel for just $ 10.- more. I am quite sure it could increase sales quite a bit. Some are put off by front-rear panels.

A cheap alternative is to use matt black pcb to make front panels. And they look great.

 

[solderdude]

Why go 'cheap' when you can just ask $ 5.- more for a nice metal front-plate ?
When ordered in reasonable quantities it does not have to cost that much.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Why go 'cheap' when you can just ask $ 5.- more for a nice metal front-plate ?
When ordered in reasonable quantities it does not have to cost that much.

10 dollar is expensive and 5 dollar is still a lot for such price range. It's not like you can get sub 1 dollar for that in China. Black matt pcb panel is about 10 cents per ea, 20 cents per unit. Idk.

 

[solderdude]

That may well be for large qt'y in China but Geshelli states they use US made materials and willing to bet they do not order their front panels and enclosures in quantities of many thousand pieces. stamping/drilling/machining and silk-screening small quantities won't get much cheaper in relatively small quantities.

They do appear to use parts that came from the Orient though but are sourced via US companies.

Our bare PCB's are fabricated by a US company, we make sure they are not outsourced. All of our components are sourced through US companies. The components are pick and placed, baked, and assembled at Geshelli Labs.
The clear cases are cut on our laser cutting machines.
Our metal cases are anodized right here in Florida.

For my own designs I use PCB's made in China (PCBWay), before that I used (affordable) EU manufactured PCB's which are 2 to 3x more expensive and of much lower quality than the Chinese stuff.

 

[KSTR]

Good one!

Testing if a cap is good or not when used in front of the input stage of an amplifier is quite easy:
- 1) Get/borrow a dual spot oscilloscope.
- 2) Get/borrow a square-wave signal generator (most scopes are already having built-in generators). Do not use a DAC as a square-wave generator, it will not work properly!
- 3) Feed the amp with 1V RMS square-waves at 20Hz and measure the output of the amplifier with your scope (1...2V RMS on outputs should do). On the same screen measure the output of the signal generator. Do a print screen or photo of both spots plotted on the screen. The two plots will probably not superimpose due to the very low 20Hz used, unless input caps are having a huge value or the amplifier is DC-coupled (but this test makes no sense now).
- 4) Do the above measurements for 50Hz and 100Hz. The two in/out plots should superimpose, at least for the 100Hz; otherwise the cap is having a lower value than needed or is of a questionable quality.
- 5) Swap the input capacitor with an "audiophile" one and do the above steps again. Now compare the print screens and check how the square-waves look like for both capacitors.
- 6) Optionally step: short-circuit the input capacitor, you can use a short wire or an isolated clipper or simply do it with a screw driver directly on the back of the PCB. Just don't use any headphones or speakers connected on outputs; use resistors instead, if needed.

I doubt there will be any difference between a regular WIMA MKP capacitor and an audiophile one when used on amplifier's input.

Meh, that kind of testing will not show anything we talking about here.... which is distortion (from voltage coefficent, mainly).

 

[restorer-john]

Besides Playmaster was a hobby horse run by a magazine company that could afford to sell at cost as a marketing exercise, not a business with margins to maintain.

I'm sorry, you are very wrong. Playmaster designs were not sold by the magazine. Electronics Australia and Electronics Today International had projects they developed and presented each month. I know, I bought them all, and Leo Simpson's baby, Silicon Chip when he decided to set up his own magazine in 1987/8.

Electronic component resellers like Dick Smith Electronics, Jaycar, David Reid, Altronics, and in the case of the Twin25, Applied Technology also offered kits or fully assembled options. Take for instance, the David Tillbrook designed ETI Series 5000 in around 1980 using the then brand new and exciting Hitachi MOSFETs in a 100+100W dual mono power amplifier with excellent specs.

By all means, go to AmericanRadioHistory dot com and download some EA and ETI magazines for free and familiarize yourself with the standard of commercial kits offered during the 1980s and 1990s.

 

[JohnYang1997]

That may well be for large qt'y in China but Geshelli states they use US made materials and willing to bet they do not order their front panels and enclosures in quantities of many thousand pieces. stamping/drilling/machining and silk-screening small quantities won't get much cheaper in relatively small quantities.

They do appear to use parts that came from the Orient though but are sourced via US companies.



For my own designs I use PCB's made in China (PCBWay), before that I used (affordable) EU manufactured PCB's which are 2 to 3x more expensive and of much lower quality than the Chinese stuff.

Holy shit. They spent really a lot for the product.

 

[restorer-john]

The enclosures are DIY extruded aluminium enclosures that are available in many different sizes. They aren't painted at all but anodized and one can get those enclosures in the few colors that the enclosure manufacturer offers.

To give Geshelli credit, they do say this:

So, they are buying in bulk extrusion and having it cut and anodized I would guess, unless they are getting raw pre-cut extrusion from somewhere...

So they are putting anodizing business through a local operation and that can't be bad. I just wish they'd give the same guy some nice front and back panels to anodize as well...

 

[solderdude]

They appear to adhere to a similar strategy as Schiit, except Schiit outsources PCB assembly.
If the exact same products were made in China I am quite sure that including shipping and import duties the devices would be comparable in quality but at least half the price. Add a distributor and or retail and the consumer price would be very similar with the only difference being jobs for the US in manufacturing not being lost. This seems to be a biggie for a lot of US residents.

My main point was that offering a nice aluminium frontplate alongside the already available options could well generate more sales and even a few % price premium wouldn't be an issue at all for those not wanting the see-through design or smoked flavor.
They are already offering choices so adding one more could only draw in folks that don't like the current front panel options.
The front plate could be all American made as well.

 

[LLL]

It is truly amazing that anyone would have the nerve to market something in this day and age that looks considerably worse than any bash-together kit sold in the 1980s when I was a teenager. And the LEDs inside...

But, it's the <3 cent tactile switches, with their black shafts poking through poorly aligned holes really push my buttons. The absolute nastiest, cheapest, and most short-lived switches money can buy. Horrible things that have no place on anything claiming to be HiFi. And that pot isn't even an Alps RK-163, it's some super cheap Chinese copy. (Alps print the value in black around the can, not on the front phenolic)

This, gentlemen is not aspirational HiFi equipment. It is school-age science project circuit boards in a can.

So what? The performance speaks for itself. You can complain all you want, and until you come up with a better product at this price point with a viable business, this is all just talk. If you can design and make it for less, please, by all means, enlighten us.