Genelec 8361A Review (Powered Monitor)

[Sancus]

The software side is ignored, but it is what makes them worth the price: integration by means of phase, level, crossover, very good automatic EQ, GLM support with all of it's benefits, digital inputs, built in bass management etc.

GLM can't do any real form of multisub bass management which is a serious limitation for a domestic system, especially at the price.

A nonGLM multisub system like miniDSP+MSO or Dirac ART can significantly outperform GLM.

 

[holdingpants01]

GLM can't do any real form of multisub bass management which is a serious limitation for a domestic system, especially at the price.

A nonGLM multisub system like miniDSP+MSO or Dirac ART can significantly outperform GLM.

But nothing is stopping you to use them if that's what you need? Personally I would love to incorporate ART into my control room atmos system if it was available as a software, but so far it's both extremely expensive and basically impossible to do because of the hardware it exclusively works on, so it's hardly an alternative or cost effective solution to GLM. I didn't say that GLM is end game solution for all the problems and situations, but it's still better than most if you look at it as a part of a system, not a box with a speaker

 

[SoldOnSoul]

The mainstream view here is that any subwoofer is just a box with speaker and (sometimes) amp. If you look at them like that - they're expensive, especially for the size. The software side is ignored, but it is what makes them worth the price: integration by means of phase, level, crossover, very good automatic EQ, GLM support with all of it's benefits, digital inputs, built in multichannel bass management etc.

Ok, in that light the "expensive take" makes sense. A bit limited view I guess. Using that rationale we would all be using old school PA speakers that go loud with little distortion and pretty much ignore the need and impact of crossovers for overall system performance.

Apart from SQ ,for me it is still the saved time that is the main benefit with GLM. If I could have all time I have spent on sub integration back and use it for work, family, friends and exercise I would be a richer, happier and healthier man.

 

[Sam Ash]

For music, has anyone tried using two 8361A speakers with two W371A subs - This is how it is mostly shown on their site with the 8361A sitting on top of the W371A. This is good because the sub frees the speakers from the lows. However, the other option would be to use nice stands with the 8361A speakers and opt for two 7380A subs instead of the W371. This would provide flexibility as the 7380A can be positioned independently. Furthermore, I think the 7380A looks aesthetically better.

Are there any benefits to the 8361A and W371A combo over replacing the W371A with the 7380A except that the later plays a bit deeper?

 

[Sam Ash]

GLM can't do any real form of multisub bass management which is a serious limitation for a domestic system, especially at the price.

A nonGLM multisub system like miniDSP+MSO or Dirac ART can significantly outperform GLM.

Interesting, thanks for pointing that out.

 

[staticV3]

Are there any benefits to the 8361A and W371A combo over replacing the W371A with the 7380A except that the later plays a bit deeper?

The W371A is advantageous in that it provides cardioid bass response, reducing room modes and providing smoother bass response.

Visualizing How Different Loudspeaker LF Directivity Patterns Couple to Room Modes

This opening post is to demonstrate how different loudspeaker low frequency directvity patterns couple to our room modes. If you are unfamiliar with what room modes are, please refer to @DonH56's excellent thread for an in-depth introduction...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[holdingpants01]

For music, has anyone tried using two 8361A speakers with two W371A subs - This is how it is mostly shown on their site with the 8361A sitting on top of the W371A. This is good because the sub frees the speakers from the lows. However, the other option would be to use nice stands with the 8361A speakers and opt for two 7380A subs instead of the W371. This would provide flexibility as the 7380A can be positioned independently. Furthermore, I think the 7380A looks aesthetically better.

Are there any benefits to the 8361A and W371A combo over replacing the W371A with the 7380A except that the later plays a bit deeper?

Not exactly the same but I was using my 8351B with two 7360A and now I upgraded to W371A. The W371A is not a subwoofer really (not only), it transforms the speakers to a 5-way cardioid system and takes over much more frequency range from the 83x1 speakers than any sub could realistically do. The biggest improvement to me was in the ~100-200Hz range, exactly where subs stops working, there's a lot of music information there and hearing it with less room influence and virtually infinite headroom was eye opening to me. I stopped caring as much about the sub range, even if this system is flat to 20Hz, it really transformed my music listening and work.
Reason to go with two 7380? Two subs would make the low end more even in other sitting positions, but that could be irrelevant, as it was in my case. Price - they should be about 30% less expensive than W371A.
Is W371A too much (cost, size, headroom) for media consumption? Probably
Does this setup look good? Nope
Am I happy with it? Hell yes

 

[onion]

I did have multi-sub Genelec subwoofers paired with the baby 8341b, and the W371a is wayyyy better

 

[Sam Ash]

Not exactly the same but I was using my 8351B with two 7360A and now I upgraded to W371A. The W371A is not a subwoofer really (not only), it transforms the speakers to a 5-way cardioid system and takes over much more frequency range from the 83x1 speakers than any sub could realistically do. The biggest improvement to me was in the ~100-200Hz range, exactly where subs stops working, there's a lot of music information there and hearing it with less room influence and virtually infinite headroom was eye opening to me. I stopped caring as much about the sub range, even if this system is flat to 20Hz, it really transformed my music listening and work.
Reason to go with two 7380? Two subs would make the low end more even in other sitting positions, but that could be irrelevant, as it was in my case. Price - they should be about 30% less expensive than W371A.
Is W371A too much (cost, size, headroom) for media consumption? Probably
Does this setup look good? Nope
Am I happy with it? Hell yes

@holdingpants01 - Thank you for the detailed analysis, very useful and informative. Nice to learn that the W371A is not just a sub unit and provides further benefits as per your explanation. I have a few questions / points:-

1. Would the benefits of a cardioid system still hold in a non-enclosed room where there is no back wall? From what I gather, the cardioid systems helps to attenuate back-wall reflections so it will still be beneficial.

2. Since the W371 is designed to kick-in much higher up in the frequency bandwidth, that is why it cannot be separated from the 8361A and is designed to act as a stand as a unified unit. Is that correct?

3. To answer your question in regards to the W371A - It's more about aesthetics, I wish Genelec had curved all the edges to make it match the 8361A or The Ones range. I have no doubts about the performance but the W371A is not very nice looking in a domestic environment. Although, the white colour looks interesting.

4. Yes - the whole idea about going for the 7380A is to make the lows more even across a wider seating area.

5. Aesthetics is important but not more important than sound fidelity.

6. Is the GLM kit worth it? - As a member of this thread ( @Sancus ) mentioned, it is not geared for multi-sub integration. I suppose a manual calibration is an option.

7. What music streamer/DAC do you use? - I suppose the best streaming services would be Tidal and Qobuz. Out of interest, do any music streaming services offer multi-channel tracks designed for 5.x, 7.x or Atmos configurations?

7. On a side note - I don't mind listening to music via a stereo configuration but I absolutely love the multi-channel experience provided via DPLIIx. I did not like how DSU sounded but I'm told that it has gone through several updates. Auro 3D Music is preferred by many but I have not had a chance to experience it. I know Genelec does cutting-edge multi-channel configurations for professional studios.

 

[HiMu]

1. Would the benefits of a cardioid system still hold in a non-enclosed room where there is no back wall? From what I gather, the cardioid systems helps to attenuate back-wall reflections so it will still be beneficial.

There are 3 different modes:

Complementary mode where the two woofers operate
independently to implement a flat frequency response; this is
the default operating mode.
Directive mode uses the two woofers simultaneously to
create continuous directivity matching with The One three-
way coaxial monitoring loudspeaker; this mode enables the
system to maintain constant directivity down to very low bass
frequencies.
Null-steering modes use the two woofers simultaneously
to enable a directive mode where the direction of minimum
output (null) is set toward a problematic orientation in the
room – enabling this mode reduces back wall, side wall or floor
reflections.

 

[holdingpants01]

@holdingpants01 - Thank you for the detailed analysis, very useful and informative. Nice to learn that the W371A is not just a sub unit and provides further benefits as per your explanation. I have a few questions / points:-

1. Would the benefits of a cardioid system still hold in a non-enclosed room where there is no back wall? From what I gather, the cardioid systems helps to attenuate back-wall reflections so it will still be beneficial.

2. Since the W371 is designed to kick-in much higher up in the frequency bandwidth, that is why it cannot be separated from the 8361A and is designed to act as a stand as a unified unit. Is that correct?

3. To answer your question in regards to the W371A - It's more about aesthetics, I wish Genelec had curved all the edges to make it match the 8361A or The Ones range. I have no doubts about the performance but the W371A is not very nice looking in a domestic environment. Although, the white colour looks interesting.

4. Yes - the whole idea about going for the 7380A is to make the lows more even across a wider seating area.

5. Aesthetics is important but not more important than sound fidelity.

6. Is the GLM kit worth it? - As a member of this thread ( @Sancus ) mentioned, it is not geared for multi-sub integration. I suppose a manual calibration is an option.

7. What music streamer/DAC do you use? - I suppose the best streaming services would be Tidal and Qobuz. Out of interest, do any music streaming services offer multi-channel tracks designed for 5.x, 7.x or Atmos configurations?

7. On a side note - I don't mind listening to music via a stereo configuration but I absolutely love the multi-channel experience provided via DPLIIx. I did not like how DSU sounded but I'm told that it has gone through several updates. Auro 3D Music is preferred by many but I have not had a chance to experience it. I know Genelec does cutting-edge multi-channel configurations for professional studios.

1. I don't see why not, but even if not then it's just so good that it would be hard to find something better that's more conventional
2. They can be separated, it's even stated in the manual, just not too far away
3. Yes, white is not as imposing as grey or black. The higher bass driver is still 14" though lol, but 8361 alone are not something that visually disappear in the room
6. GLM kit is not only worth it, but actually essential to even turn on the W371A, as they won't play a sound without choosing a mode and calibration first
7. I use them for audio work, so I'm just connected through AES for stereo and analog for 7.1.4 through Universal Audio Apollo X16. I listen to Atmos music through Apple Music straight from mac mini, works flawlessly and is totally worth it.

 

[Blockader]

For music, has anyone tried using two 8361A speakers with two W371A subs - This is how it is mostly shown on their site with the 8361A sitting on top of the W371A. This is good because the sub frees the speakers from the lows. However, the other option would be to use nice stands with the 8361A speakers and opt for two 7380A subs instead of the W371. This would provide flexibility as the 7380A can be positioned independently. Furthermore, I think the 7380A looks aesthetically better.

Are there any benefits to the 8361A and W371A combo over replacing the W371A with the 7380A except that the later plays a bit deeper?

W371 is not a subwoofer. It turns The Ones into cardioid speakers. It is more, way more than just a sub.

 

[Sancus]

But nothing is stopping you to use them if that's what you need? Personally I would love to incorporate ART into my control room atmos system if it was available as a software, but so far it's both extremely expensive and basically impossible to do because of the hardware it exclusively works on, so it's hardly an alternative or cost effective solution to GLM. I didn't say that GLM is end game solution for all the problems and situations, but it's still better than most if you look at it as a part of a system, not a box with a speaker

Yes, that's all true. I do like GLM a lot, and I use it with my system, it's just missing that one particular feature is all.

@holdingpants01 - Thank you for the detailed analysis, very useful and informative. Nice to learn that the W371A is not just a sub unit and provides further benefits as per your explanation. I have a few questions / points:-

[a big list]

1. Certainly, yes. Cardioid bass also reduces sidewall interactions.

2. They don't have to be stacked but because the W371 can play as high as 200-300hz depending on what the auto crossover does, it will be directional and you will be able to hear sound coming from two different locations if they're too far apart.

3-5 Can't help you there, I love the aesthetics

6. The GLM kit is like a couple hundred bucks and lets you do stuff like turn LEDs off and change the idle timeout, so yes you always want it. GLM is easy to configure and it does a good job of correcting individual speakers. You have to use it if you are using the W371As to properly configure them, so it's not optional then.

If you want additional subwoofers with a multi-sub setup, as mentioned above, that can be added with a different system. Whether or not you need subs is hard to answer, for stereo music I would say maybe not. For HT/multi-channel you probably want to cover the LFE channel and any channels lacking W371As with subs. My maxed out dream system is basically W371As + 8351Bs for all bed channels, 8341As for heights and 4 JTR RS2 subs for the LFE. I would skip Genelec only for the subs. But it's very dependent on use case and personal preference, W371As will play pretty loud even in low bass on their own. And they do a great job of producing smooth bass throughout their frequency range.

7. I like Auro, personally, but a lot of the music I listen to is native multi-channel(from ripped SACDs etc) or Atmos from Apple Music or ripped blurays. Some people don't like Auro because it has a bit of bass boost built-in but honestly a lot of multi-channel albums have more bass than stereo recordings of the exact same music, so I don't think it's a big deal.

 

[Sam Ash]

There are 3 different modes:

Complementary mode where the two woofers operate
independently to implement a flat frequency response; this is
the default operating mode.
Directive mode uses the two woofers simultaneously to
create continuous directivity matching with The One three-
way coaxial monitoring loudspeaker; this mode enables the
system to maintain constant directivity down to very low bass
frequencies.
Null-steering modes use the two woofers simultaneously
to enable a directive mode where the direction of minimum
output (null) is set toward a problematic orientation in the
room – enabling this mode reduces back wall, side wall or floor
reflections.

Thank you for that information, I was not aware of that.

The room in question has 3 sides only, the front of the room and sides have walls but the back of the room has no wall and is part of an open plan design. There will be one row of seats, probably a comfy 3 seater couch at approximately two-thirds away from the front wall along the length of the room. My reason for wanting to separate the 8361A from the subs by using 7380A units is to maximise seat to seat consistency below the transition frequency.

Has GLM been upgraded to recognise and configure more than one sub as I am looking at a 2.2 system? - I presume crossovers are set within the GLM software. I do like the daisy chaining concept via IP. However once one is done with GLP, how are the speakers and subs connected? - Do the subs connect to one of the speakers in a daisy chain format? If not, then it's not a problem as that can be done via an external DSP.

 

[Sam Ash]

1. I don't see why not, but even if not then it's just so good that it would be hard to find something better that's more conventional
2. They can be separated, it's even stated in the manual, just not too far away
3. Yes, white is not as imposing as grey or black. The higher bass driver is still 14" though lol, but 8361 alone are not something that visually disappear in the room
6. GLM kit is not only worth it, but actually essential to even turn on the W371A, as they won't play a sound without choosing a mode and calibration first
7. I use them for audio work, so I'm just connected through AES for stereo and analog for 7.1.4 through Universal Audio Apollo X16. I listen to Atmos music through Apple Music straight from mac mini, works flawlessly and is totally worth it.

Now that I understand how the combo works, it would not be a good idea to separate them. I did not know that the upper driver on the W371A is 14". The 8361A are still good looking and have a bit of that organic feel. I know Genelec do non-coax speakers for homes but I just love the Ones for their point-source design and well respected performance. The W371 should have been finished to match the Ones in my opinion. Overall, I think they don't look bad.

 

[Sam Ash]

Yes, that's all true. I do like GLM a lot, and I use it with my system, it's just missing that one particular feature is all.



1. Certainly, yes. Cardioid bass also reduces sidewall interactions.

2. They don't have to be stacked but because the W371 can play as high as 200-300hz depending on what the auto crossover does, it will be directional and you will be able to hear sound coming from two different locations if they're too far apart.

3-5 Can't help you there, I love the aesthetics

6. The GLM kit is like a couple hundred bucks and lets you do stuff like turn LEDs off and change the idle timeout, so yes you always want it. GLM is easy to configure and it does a good job of correcting individual speakers. You have to use it if you are using the W371As to properly configure them, so it's not optional then.

If you want additional subwoofers with a multi-sub setup, as mentioned above, that can be added with a different system. Whether or not you need subs is hard to answer, for stereo music I would say maybe not. For HT/multi-channel you probably want to cover the LFE channel and any channels lacking W371As with subs. My maxed out dream system is basically W371As + 8351Bs for all bed channels, 8341As for heights and 4 JTR RS2 subs for the LFE. I would skip Genelec only for the subs. But it's very dependent on use case and personal preference, W371As will play pretty loud even in low bass on their own. And they do a great job of producing smooth bass throughout their frequency range.

7. I like Auro, personally, but a lot of the music I listen to is native multi-channel(from ripped SACDs etc) or Atmos from Apple Music or ripped blurays. Some people don't like Auro because it has a bit of bass boost built-in but honestly a lot of multi-channel albums have more bass than stereo recordings of the exact same music, so I don't think it's a big deal.

1. That's good to know.

2. Best not to separate them as they were designed to be coupled. Does it matter if the 8361A sits on top either in the horizontal or vertical manner in terms of the fact that it is closer to the W71A's upper front facing driver in the horizontal position?

3-5. I like the look of the 8361A but the W371A comes across as a quick after-thought.

6. Saw an over-view video of GLM, very cool - love the UI and I'm sure the UX is excellent too.

7. I like DPLIIx but it has been discontinued which is unfortunate. Many are beginning to like the latest version of DSU. I have not experienced Auto.

 

[Sam Ash]

From what I am understanding, a pair of 8361A in conjunction with two 7380A subs are not as good as two units of the 8361A+W371A combo - is that correct?

Forgot to ask, when a signal is not detected, does the system automatically go to sleep after a predefined period - I think I remember seeing that as a setting in GLM overview video.

 

[Blockader]

W371 calculates how to integrate to 8361s based on the measurements of 8361. In other words, it calculates how to set the correct crossover frequency to 8361s etc based on your room, treatment and how you placed the speakers on them.

Place 8361s horizontally if your room is very small as this will attenuate the mid/high bass radiated to side walls. Place them vertically if your room is fine.

Forgot to ask, when a signal is not detected, does the system automatically go to sleep after a predefined period - I think I remember seeing that as a setting in GLM overview video

Yes. I never turn off my 8361s.

From what I am understanding, a pair of 8361A in conjunction with two 7380A subs are not as good as two units of the 8361A+W371A combo - is that correct?

They are different. W371 improves clarity from 60hz up to 500hz~ because it enables speakers to interact wth the walls/room less. 7380 is just a large big subwoofer.
If you want to know how W371 does that: W371 cancels the sounds around the speaker and at the back of the speaker to make them interact with the walls around them less.

 

[Pearljam5000]

They should release a smaller 8381 so people wouldn't have to buy the 8361+W371 separately

 

[Blockader]

They should release a smaller 8381 so people wouldn't have to buy the 8361+W371 separatelyView attachment 358183

W371 + 8361 operates differently than 8381. They have different sound characteristics.
We have discussed this before: 8381 is designed to be a high SPL speaker.

@Pearljam5000 The equilavent of high SPL version of W371+8361 is Electrovoice MTS-6154. Both are cardioid point source speakers. It is louder than anything Genelec ever designed, while also being cardoid and point source.