Epos ES 14 N - best passive Speaker in SpiNorama.org so far? (7.4/10 with equalisation without subwoofer)

[totti1965]

Also, this is a small company, so if ASR or Erin says they are bad, it’s obvious that the company will run out of business soon as the influence both has on new Age audio consumers is massive.

Oh, big smile….. Epos is part of the Demant Group (Switzerland) the world leader in hearing technology in healthcare.
Other parts of the Demant Group are Neumann and Sennheiser Communication Systems
Do you even know who you are talking about here?
It is not very likely that Erin or @amirm don‘t like the Epos.
Look at the Wharfedale Linton 85 Anniversary Test by Erin (his favorite sub 2.000 Dollar Speaker!)
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/wharfedale_linton_85/
Look at Amir’s Review of the Wharfedale Diamond 12.1

Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 Review (Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 bookshelf speaker. It was kindly purchased by a member and drop shipped to me. It costs US $399 for a pair. The look and feel of the 12.1 is definitely above the budget category: The back is rather pedestrian but...

www.audiosciencereview.com

All these Speaker are Constructed by Karl-Heinz Fink!
By the way: He has also worked for Vifa and Scanspeak - helping them to devolop the Speakers! The Speaker Chassis
all the other manufacturers used - so KHF is no pillow pooper - more the level of Andrew Jones!

 

[totti1965]

I suspect that was more effective marketing than effective engineering.

Some Companies can effort the extra Cost of the Klippel Laserinterferometer, helping to get the Cabinet clean from Vibrations, others not.
The Companies who invest, know exactly what they do and why they do the extra research!

I don‘t know if Wilson did any research in this direction. They just kill every cabinet resonance by their sheer massiveness and the Material they use:
Corian, by Du Pont, invented in 1969. There was no marketing after the exebition. Just some guys who listen a few Songs after the show and me, who asked his self: Why is this so damn good?
And I remembered a Podcast with KHF who outed himself as a fan of the Wilson Kabinetts, and how he tried to get the same results with Klippel and Laserinterferrometrie and some nice design skills for much less money than Wilson.
Corian, an artificial stone is expensive (1.000 mm x 1.000 mm x 12 mm about USD 500,—)

 

[Purité Audio]

Mass just pushes up the resonant frequencies.
Wilson speakers really measure quite poorly, their ‘success’ ( in this country at least) is purely down to massive marketing.
Keith

 

[Count Arthur]

Mass just pushes up the resonant frequencies.
Keith

Presumably, if you can push them up high enough, they will only bother the dog.

 

[totti1965]

Mass just pushes up the resonant frequencies.
Wilson speakers really measure quite poorly, their ‘success’ ( in this country at least) is purely down to massive marketing.
Keith

Do you think, it is just a subjektive feeling, if I think my LS3/5a (Bitumen inside) or a massive Wilson speaker has less Cabinet based sound colouration than, let’s say a typical 1.1 m high mediocre floorstanding speaker?
Perhaps the addition of mass puts the frequency’s up, but they are also much less loud.
Knock with your ankle on the stone guitar of the Beatles monument in Liverpool (Autsch )
After that: Knock with your ankle on a real guitar. Which is louder?

 

[fpitas]

if ASR or Erin says they are bad, it’s obvious that the company will run out of business soon as the influence both has on new Age audio consumers is massive.

Some people are paying attention no doubt, but in the world of high end audiophilia I think ASR is pointedly ignored.

 

[totti1965]

This could be taken to mean that a smaller manufacturer should fear the verdict of Erin or Amir. But perhaps that is what the "new age audio consumer" really relies on. They no longer trust their own judgement, or are too lazy to form their own judgement in the first place. (I don't know if this is true, it's just a thought that comes to mind).

Amir did some funny remarks in this direction: „Can you trust your Ears?“ Answer: „no, of course not“!
Or when he is Testing voodoo stuff. Then he is sometimes joking: „I was shocked! It sounded so much better….“
Then eyes closed, switching the button 20 times. Not knowing which source is operating. Not able to reproduce the differences he first heared…..

 

[Deleted member 21219]

Some people are paying attention no doubt, but in the world of high end audiophilia I think ASR is pointedly ignored.

As in the comments on this Stereophile review, starting with post #20 ......

Electrocompaniet AW 800 M stereo/monoblock power amplifier

The finest soup I ever tasted was served in Kamakura City, Japan, in 1992. After climbing a mountain to a shrine that held a lock of Buddha's hair, I descended to Kamakura and walked to its Great Bronze Buddha. By the time I had taken my fill of the image's 730-year-old wonders and the countless...

www.stereophile.com

Jim

 

[Soniclife]

I don‘t know if Wilson did any research in this direction. They just kill every cabinet resonance by their sheer massiveness and the Material they use:

Excluding their marketing department, who's effectiveness you are demonstrating, it doesn't look like it. See this for an example.

 

[Soniclife]

All these Speaker are Constructed by Karl-Heinz Fink!

I think Peter Comeau might be surprised KLH did the Linton.

 

[ahofer]

Do you think, it is just a subjektive feeling, if I think my LS3/5a (Bitumen inside) or a massive Wilson speaker has less Cabinet based sound colouration than, let’s say a typical 1.1 m high mediocre floorstanding speaker?
Perhaps the addition of mass puts the frequency’s up, but they are also much less loud.
Knock with your ankle on the stone guitar of the Beatles monument in Liverpool (Autsch )
After that: Knock with your ankle on a real guitar. Which is louder?

It only counts if you can hear it in the speaker. Knocking on sculptures and musical instruments is useless. Everyone know what knocking on a stone and an intentionally resonant cavity will do. That’s a good example of dumb marketing talk.

Solid cabinets have higher resonances, but when they are triggered they ring persistently. There is another school of thought (espoused by those following in your own speaker’s designer’s footsteps) that speaker resonance should be damped at lower frequency to inaudible levels.

Either way, it shows up in measurements and does or doesn’t reach an audible level ( and even then may be masked). I’ve found three sets of Wilsons fatiguing. Probably just due to uneven HF response or dispersion.

Wilson Audio Specialties Alexia loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

Wilson Audio Specialties Sabrina loudspeaker Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

 

[kemmler3D]

Mass just pushes up the resonant frequencies.

I think actually more stiffness increases the frequency of resonance, but mass per se (with the same bracing pattern or whatever) tends to absorb more energy overall? With sheer mass I think more is more, although what you really want is damping or more internal reflections via well-thought-out layering, not just a big dumb block of stiff material, which doesn't necessarily help a lot.

 

[kemmler3D]

As in the comments on this Stereophile review, starting with post #20 ......

Electrocompaniet AW 800 M stereo/monoblock power amplifier

The finest soup I ever tasted was served in Kamakura City, Japan, in 1992. After climbing a mountain to a shrine that held a lock of Buddha's hair, I descended to Kamakura and walked to its Great Bronze Buddha. By the time I had taken my fill of the image's 730-year-old wonders and the countless...

www.stereophile.com

Jim

One of the comments:

I don't know what Ohm's Law and I don't effing care. I know some basics.

Bahahha which is it? I'd love to know what's more basic to electronics than that...

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Because, he doesn’t want to get bashed by either of them. Neutral - best at ASR and Erin’s. His speaker will loose marks at both places as they are not neutral. Also, this is a small company, so if ASR or Erin says they are bad, it’s obvious that the company will run out of business soon as the influence both has on new Age audio consumers is massive.

I don’t think non neutral speakers are bad.

The speakers don't have to come from Dave Fabricant. There must be an owner who could spare one for the couple of months Amir or Erin would need to test and review it. Most gear comes to ASR and Erin from customers, not the manufacturers.

 

[ahofer]

As in the comments on this Stereophile review, starting with post #20 ......

Electrocompaniet AW 800 M stereo/monoblock power amplifier

The finest soup I ever tasted was served in Kamakura City, Japan, in 1992. After climbing a mountain to a shrine that held a lock of Buddha's hair, I descended to Kamakura and walked to its Great Bronze Buddha. By the time I had taken my fill of the image's 730-year-old wonders and the countless...

www.stereophile.com

Jim

LOL

 

[Purité Audio]

Keith

I think actually more stiffness increases the frequency of resonance, but mass per se (with the same bracing pattern or whatever) tends to absorb more energy overall? With sheer mass I think more is more, although what you really want is damping or more internal reflections via well-thought-out layering, not just a big dumb block of stiff material, which doesn't necessarily help a lot.

I think you are right, adding mass actually lowers the natural frequency, however the enclosure is constructed it shouldn’t store energy which could lead to audible resonance.
Keith

 

[dogmamann]

Amir did some funny remarks in this direction: „Can you trust your Ears?“ Answer: „no, of course not“!
Or when he is Testing voodoo stuff. Then he is sometimes joking: „I was shocked! It sounded so much better….“
Then eyes closed, switching the button 20 times. Not knowing which source is operating. Not able to reproduce the differences he first heared…..

I am having a hard time understanding your comment!

 

[dogmamann]

Do you think, it is just a subjektive feeling, if I think my LS3/5a (Bitumen inside) or a massive Wilson speaker has less Cabinet based sound colouration than, let’s say a typical 1.1 m high mediocre floorstanding speaker?
Perhaps the addition of mass puts the frequency’s up, but they are also much less loud.
Knock with your ankle on the stone guitar of the Beatles monument in Liverpool (Autsch )
After that: Knock with your ankle on a real guitar. Which is louder?

Is this the Wilson you are talking about? Interesting.

 

[dogmamann]

Oh, big smile….. Epos is part of the Demant Group (Switzerland) the world leader in hearing technology in healthcare.
Other parts of the Demant Group are Neumann and Sennheiser Communication Systems
Do you even know who you are talking about here?
It is not very likely that Erin or @amirm don‘t like the Epos.
Look at the Wharfedale Linton 85 Anniversary Test by Erin (his favorite sub 2.000 Dollar Speaker!)
https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/wharfedale_linton_85/
Look at Amir’s Review of the Wharfedale Diamond 12.1

Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 Review (Speaker)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Wharfedale Diamond 12.1 bookshelf speaker. It was kindly purchased by a member and drop shipped to me. It costs US $399 for a pair. The look and feel of the 12.1 is definitely above the budget category: The back is rather pedestrian but...

www.audiosciencereview.com

All these Speaker are Constructed by Karl-Heinz Fink!
By the way: He has also worked for Vifa and Scanspeak - helping them to devolop the Speakers! The Speaker Chassis
all the other manufacturers used - so KHF is no pillow pooper - more the level of Andrew Jones!

Epos is a brand by Fink consulting, who also has another more expensive brand called “Fink Team”. There is another Epos which I believe is the speaker phone or gaming audio brand by sennheiser which has nothing to do with Epos the speaker company.

Mr. KHZ is a talented designer. I had several speakers which he had designed for his older brands like IQ, ALR, and so on. All of them had a typical sound which is enjoyable but not neutral.

Wharfedale Lintons were not designed by KHz but diamonds were.

 

[dogmamann]

My objection to the use of polypropylene in the woofer cones was because of its durability and not because of the sound. I suppose that, as with steel or cement, by alloying/mixing it with other materials its properties will improve.

My real objection to the new EPOS ES14N is regarding the low quality of the filter components considering the price of the speakers, €4,000. To understand each other, it is like buying a high-end car whose seats are not covered in leather.

It’s stupid to look at the compnents and to judge how it’s gonna sound. If that’s the case, the KEF LS50 and R Series would be the worst value for money you can get. But they are amazing speakers.