Denon AVR-X3800H Review

[sask15]

I had asked a Denon representative and he said the 4800 would have the same DAC as the 3800. The slides also show them having the same as well but would be nice if that has changed. The 4800 is set to release on Dec 1-2022.

 

[RF Air]

I had asked a Denon representative and he said the 4800 would have the same DAC as the 3800. The slides also show them having the same as well but would be nice if that has changed. The 4800 is set to release on Dec 1-2022.

Hi @sask15 ,
Thanks for the update, the release date is good news. The DAC change was wishful on my part. Not sure if there can be an improvement in performance with the 4800 over the 4700 or 3800, but it has a couple of features that can be beneficial. I am married to the 4 sub outs capability and the Dirac upgrade. Hoping the Jitter Chip and Monolith Amp construction/larger PS offer improvements.

 

[RF Air]

I had asked a Denon representative and he said the 4800 would have the same DAC as the 3800. The slides also show them having the same as well but would be nice if that has changed. The 4800 is set to release on Dec 1-2022.

BTW, Welcome to the Forum!

 

[amper42]

I think the only other metric of hope is the new amplifier architecture which may offer some improvement over the past model 4700 and the current 3800H. Of course the benefit of a Jitter Chip, larger PS and 125 Watt Rated Amps are some benefit, but still; DAC's bottleneck the Fidelity which is still disappointing. Maybe the Japan production team has the "magic" to make something better happen. (Setting myself up for disappointment, I know...)

I looked at the Denon 4800H spec page and I can't see a reason to buy it. The 4700 has Auro-3D while the 3700 did not. The 4700 has a front HDMI port nice for REW while the 3700 did not. And the 4700 has a 2-line display while the 3700 did not.

Now we compare the 3800 to the 4800. Both receivers have Auro-3D. Neither receiver has a front HDMI port. The 4800 has a 2-line display but that's not enough to pay $500 more for? The 25W amp difference doesn't matter as anyone serious about more power will use an external amp. As far as I can see, Denon cut most of the reasoning for buying a 4800 over the 3800.

 

[sask15]

thanks RF Air. I also like the made in Japan, the new monolith amp design, extra features over the 3800. I know it’s not maybe going to make a big difference but am going with the 4800 myself.

 

[dlaloum]

That's would be anybody's guess as they don't provide details other than what's in the product info sheet and owner's manual. Based on those available information, and recent history, my best guess (just my own) is that I would not expect "new amplifier architecture...". The 125 W rated output into 8 ohms, power consumption figure, distortion specs, snr etc., specs appear to be the same as the 2020 models. As for the DAC, I would hope that by the time the X4800H is ready for production, the AK4458 will be available and have no shortage, then they might just go back to the original DAC board but now that's just my own wishful thinking.

More likely the new management will keep it for the Xx900 generation - then they can blow their own horn about how improved it is.... (without ever mentioning the X3700AKM series...) - am I being too cynical?

 

[CyrusTheGreat_600BC]

More likely the new management will keep it for the Xx900 generation - then they can blow their own horn about how improved it is.... (without ever mentioning the X3700AKM series...) - am I being too cynical?

It’s a dangerous game to play. By that time, half of us probably got an Onkyo or something else. Once you get comfortable with the new brands quirks, you are less likely to switch back to Denon. Unless they suddenly offer 120 SINAD which doesn’t seem to be the priority of the new management. Either way, it gets a lot harder for Denon to win the customers back.

 

[rvsixer]

As far as I can see, Denon cut most of the reasoning for buying a 4800 over the 3800.

Unless I missed it, I have seen no 6800 being in the pipeline. So I am hoping/holding out for the 4800 having front wide support (limited to use with four overheads) just like the 6700 had (an 11-channel processor, but with 13-channel processing under certain configs).

Otherwise, yes totally agree no reason for 4800 over 3800 for most consumers.

 

[Sancus]

Unless I missed it, I have seen no 6800 being in the pipeline.

That's normal, they don't always update every model, some skip a year. For example there was a 3600H in 2019, but no 6600H.

The next 6000 series will probably be a 6900H in 2023.

 

[Fidji]

If you assume that only cuts are made, you are correct. But in reality, this is not the case. Significant boosts are made. And anytime you boost, you'll need to compensate for that by lowering the total gain so you won't get clipping. If Dirac would only cut, it would not need to lower the gain

Here is my Dirac compensation for a desktop:

View attachment 243298
Don't mind the bass boost, that's my personal preference. If my curve were flat, I'd still have significant cuts and boosts. If I boost by 6dB, I'll need to lower the global gain by at least that much to prevent digital clipping.

This is why you want to have abundance of headroom in "analogue" domain - be it multiple subs, acoustic treatments, proper placement and setup of subs, having proper speakers with enough bass extension, tons of watts etc.

Actually, my knowledge of DIRAC is limited - can you limit the boost that is applied to e.g. +4dB? Or it is only on/off at specified frequency?

 

[voodooless]

This is why you want to have abundance of headroom in "analogue" domain - be it multiple subs, acoustic treatments, proper placement and setup of subs, having proper speakers with enough bass extension, tons of watts etc.

Sure whatever you can do in the physical domain to help flatten the response, will not need digital correction.

Actually, my knowledge of DIRAC is limited - can you limit the boost that is applied to e.g. +4dB? Or it is only on/off at specified frequency?

From what I can see, there is no setting for this. So it will depend on whatever target curve you select. I have no idea how the current Audyssey works? My old version has no settings for this (or for almost anything for that matter )

 

[rvsixer]

That's normal, they don't always update every model, some skip a year. For example there was a 3600H in 2019, but no 6600H.

True enough. I should have included "current year" in my pipeline reference.

 

[peng]

It’s a dangerous game to play. By that time, half of us probably got an Onkyo or something else. Once you get comfortable with the new brands quirks, you are less likely to switch back to Denon. Unless they suddenly offer 120 SINAD which doesn’t seem to be the priority of the new management. Either way, it gets a lot harder for Denon to win the customers back.

It could work for them if they pass their marketing info well ahead of time about such alleged "improvements" to the online/Youtuber reviewers including the high(er) end ones like Andrew Robinson who seemed to be easily affected by such hypes and would blurb out descriptive like wider soundstage, so much clearer yet smooth mid and highs, greater dynamics yet more layback blabalaba. Sort of plant the seed in the spring and harvest in the fall...

Sadly, while many of us don't tend to value those subjective reviews too much, some of those reviewers do have a lot of followers and influence. I would guess far more than the likes of the more objective reviewers such as Amir and Gene. It is sad but true, marketing people know it well too, that may be why manufacturers don't care much about bench test results. Instead, all they have to do is to come up with a few audio quality related features (HDAM, and yes DAC IC too when it suits them, such as when D+M first switch from the PCM1690 to the AK4458/4490..) and those paper magazine and online reviewers will do the rest, such as explained it away in their populist way, and in the process, plant seeds in the potential buyers heads an/or suckers via such online reviews that would flood the internet.

By the way, could someone tell me why those online/youtubers seem to have no trouble getting samples, even expensive ones for them to do those semi bs reviews while the more objective fact-based ones like Gene and Amir don't seem to have such luxury? For example, if you do a search on Youtube, you will lose count on how many AVRs Mr. Robinson has reviewed so far this year, it's incredible!

 

[Vacceo]

I decided to pick up a second-hand X3600H as a stop-gap. I'm not a gamer so I don't need 4k/120Hz. The X3800H's promise of Dirac is, at the moment of writing, just that.

The X3600H should suit me well for the next few years at least, and be a worthy upgrade over my 2011 Denon AVR-1612.

I think that is a sensible choice: buy whatever has the features you will use. Otherwise, wait for something that does have those features.

 

[joblo]

Hi everyone! I have a little question. If my room need correction, what should give me the best results, the x3700h with audyssey or the x3800h with dirac? Looks like X3700h > x3800h and dirac > audyssey, which one will have the biggest impact? Also, si there any alternative under 5000$? Any avr or processor with dirac that mesured well? Thank you!

 

[delta76]

Hi everyone! I have a little question. If my room need correction, what should give me the best results, the x3700h with audyssey or the x3800h with dirac? Looks like X3700h > x3800h and dirac > audyssey, which one will have the biggest impact? Also, si there any alternative under 5000$? Any avr or processor with dirac that mesured well? Thank you!

- audyssey XT32 can be very good.
- dirac is not available for at least 6 months. With full license it's close to $2000, which is a lot.
if dirac is important to you, go with an AVR which has it implemented, like RZ50.

 

[amper42]

Audyssey XT32 and the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app can make your speakers sound just about anyway you want. Use REW to display the EQ issues in your room and the MultEQ Editor app to adjust them. Dirac is nice but most people who fully understand both the MultEQ Editor app and Dirac see the value of each. I can't say I would expect to hear much difference between a well tuned MultEQ Editor app setup and a Dirac EQ.

While you can obviously use these EQ tools to adjust the sound, sometimes a two channel RME ADI-2 stereo setup can sound even better than any of my AVRs. It's a matter of taste.

 

[Music707]

- audyssey XT32 can be very good.
- dirac is not available for at least 6 months. With full license it's close to $2000, which is a lot.
if dirac is important to you, go with an AVR which has it implemented, like RZ50.

Your statement is valid for Dirac Live without Bass Control. If I am not mistaken, DLBC is not available on the RZ50 but is intended as an upgrade on the Denon.

 

[Doctors11]

It could work for them if they pass their marketing info well ahead of time about such alleged "improvements" to the online/Youtuber reviewers including the high(er) end ones like Andrew Robinson who seemed to be easily affected by such hypes and would blurb out descriptive like wider soundstage, so much clearer yet smooth mid and highs, greater dynamics yet more layback blabalaba. Sort of plant the seed in the spring and harvest in the fall...

Sadly, while many of us don't tend to value those subjective reviews too much, some of those reviewers do have a lot of followers and influence. I would guess far more than the likes of the more objective reviewers such as Amir and Gene. It is sad but true, marketing people know it well too, that may be why manufacturers don't care much about bench test results. Instead, all they have to do is to come up with a few audio quality related features (HDAM, and yes DAC IC too when it suits them, such as when D+M first switch from the PCM1690 to the AK4458/4490..) and those paper magazine and online reviewers will do the rest, such as explained it away in their populist way, and in the process, plant seeds in the potential buyers heads an/or suckers via such online reviews that would flood the internet.

By the way, could someone tell me why those online/youtubers seem to have no trouble getting samples, even expensive ones for them to do those semi bs reviews while the more objective fact-based ones like Gene and Amir don't seem to have such luxury? For example, if you do a search on Youtube, you will lose count on how many AVRs Mr. Robinson has reviewed so far this year, it's incredible!

I'm guessing because the youtubers rarely give a bad review, knowing if they did manufacturers would be hesitant to send any more product to them. On the other hand if a manufacturer sends product to Amir or Erin they do so knowing that measurements don't lie. So they'd have to be pretty confident in their product to do so.

 

[delta76]

Your statement is valid for Dirac Live without Bass Control. If I am not mistaken, DLBC is not available on the RZ50 but is intended as an upgrade on the Denon.

I understand DLBC is another 199$ or so upgrade, and further in the future.

I would not wait, but well, if you must have DLBC...