So why are you on here... certainly looking for something, but I'd guess nothing to do with AVIt is always problematic when sciences becomes religious. This is what happens here. This is not audio sciences - it is the church of SINAD. Going down the purity spiral.
You and 'hmt' should start your own website see how many subscribers you'd getThat's marketing
I have a hard time believing that consumers who prioritize SINAD numbers are the target market for this product. I would think we are a niche within a niche within a niche.
If we summarize, the 3800 generation offers features that will only be useful to a tiny part of those who will buy it. The most important of all, the famous Dirac, will only be available in 2023 and its ultimate function will only be available in 2024... that is to say when the 3900 series will be announced, with an even more powerful DSP ...An anthusiast by 2024 will be probably looking at Dirac MIMO. It is never a good idea to buy hoping for future compatibilities that may or may not happen.
I wonder. Why don't they manufacture exclusively digital pre-pros, so that the consumer can use the dac of his choice?
I guess im here to watch people quote me with no context and use it for ad hominem attacks look, i used one more emoji than you. i win the argument...You and 'hmt' should start your own website see how many subscribers you'd get
Very true! Even in preamp mode the 3800 and 3700 are toasters in Florida.The 3700H was my first AVC (yeah, over here in France they don't put the radio in it so they don't call them DENON "AVR"). I ordered and received the "in-between" box to fix the 8k-4K/120Hz issue (If I ever get a TV that supports it that is), and I'll be just fine without Dirac. Audissey and its App is simple enough, and I bought a umik-1 mike and used REW to fine-tune the whole thing (sort of). My biggest concern is HEAT. While I can get warm AND enjoy movies in my tiny TV corner in the winter, I must not leave it on for too long in the summer for it is really fighting against the A/C. I think we should all wait untill they put proper/decent class-D modules in those AVRs so that we no longer buy toasters, save on electricity bills etc. Now, there is no point in chasing "better" component performant if your room is not quiet enough. At best, mine is between 40 and 43dB-C at night and/or when none is around....
the heat comes from the Video processor I believe.Very true! Even in preamp mode the 3800 and 3700 are toasters in Florida.
You have no facts. You are posting speculation. Here is fact: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ts-did-show-amplifiers-to-sound-different.23/
Limited to lossless 2.0 (stereo) PCM audio, compressed Dolby Digital 2.0/5.1, Dolby Digital EX, compressed DTS Digital Surround, DTS-ES Matrix 6.1 and DTS-ES Discrete 6.1. No multichannel LPCM, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby Atmos, DTS:X or high-definition audio such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio. The lossless multichannel formats are only via HDMI which has HDCP etc. What aspect of piracy concerns you there when HD/UHD bluray and streaming rips exist?is there some kind of issue with home theater gear outputting sp/dif?
sounds like a nice way to court piracy
Not at all. You put in a more performant design in there, wait for our review praising it and how far it leaves competition in the dust, and you have strong marketing value to enthusiasts -- their target market.
Now, two years ago this factor did not exist. But now it does and Denon is fully aware of it. Indeed, I had read tea leaves that they were trying to do better than last generation. So imagine my surprise when performance went backward. We will have to see if this messaging justifies their cost saving -- assuming that was the case.
Many audiophiles believe that 2nd harmonic is to be preferred over 3rd harmonic. Certainly it is simpler in character, and it is well agreed that orders higher than third are more audible and less musical. However when given a choice between the sound of an amplifier whose characteristic is dominantly 2nd harmonic versus 3rd harmonic, a good percentage of listeners choose the 3rd.
This is a genuine question: SINAD still being on DB logarithmic scale means each 3DB it’s doubled? So 6DB means 4x (better or worse) and 9DB means 8x (better or worse)?Thanks to you, 17 pages in two days, I hope Denon (may as well include Marantz) are getting the message!! They manage to switch so quickly before model# change and even had to redesign/remanufacture the boards to accommodate the higher chip counts due to going from 8 ch to 2 ch chips so hopefully they could go back to the original 8 ch boards and use something like the ES9026Pro, or PCM1795 mid cycle. If they do that, I would be willing to pay more, not for audibly better "sound quality" but for the better spec ICs and measurements. While at it, they should also use better opamp ICS than the NJM8080 that they have been using.
I hope many more ASR members will chime it and let Denon/Marantz know we don't like them switching to the important DAC IC that has lower specs than the ones before.
For those who bought the X3800H already, I think they will still be happy with the "sound". Based on the measurements, I would guess in a blind test they will sound the same or almost the same as the X3700H.
We can compare their harmonic distortions and noise and see that the two should be very comparable for real world use under most conditions:
The preout/dac of the 3800's 10 dB drop in SINAD is made up of about 11 dB higher 2nd harmonic and 9 dB 3rd harmonic. In absolute term, the 2nd was about -90 dB and the 3rd -101 dB. According to Nelson Pass (not that we have to agree with or believe him):
So either the difference between the 3800 and 3700 would be inaudible or barely audible, or some may prefer the 3800's higher 2nd harmonic that many audiophiles associate it with a "warmth" and/or more "musical" sound lol..
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SNR appears to be comparable, the 3700 being a couple dB better.
It can’t be Dirac, because there is no Dirac yet. The measurements are just a few dB from chips datasheet figures, so implementation wise, they did okay job.Wondering if this poor DAC performance is due to the DAC itself or due to Dirac Live implementation?
I know there is no Dirac yet but the circuitry implementation to support Dirac Live is there already. Show me a single Dirac Live 2.0 processor with good performance and I will delete my post All ARCAM based processors running Dirac Live show poor to bad performance, same for Emotiva processors running Dirac Live 2.0.It can’t be Dirac, because there is no Dirac yet. The measurements are just a few dB from chips datasheet figures, so implementation wise, they did okay job.