YAMAHA A-S701 - tear-down, thoughts about the internals & few measurements

[Willem]

Useful insight, thank you! I suspect that yamaha, denon, marantz are as good and sometimes better than the more fashionable manufacturers

These Yamahas are certainly better than many much more expensive offerings from small audiophile manufacturers with no more than an interesting story.
At the high end watch out for the rout by class D amps, and the crackpot criticism that they somehow "do not sound right".

 

[Bernard23]

Thanks for the inputs, I just bought a 501 from amazon, net cost was just over £100 as I had a voucher to use up. I can always return it if there's no benefit over the Denon.

 

[Bernard23]

These Yamahas are certainly better than many much more expensive offerings from small audiophile manufacturers with no more than an interesting story.
At the high end watch out for the rout by class D amps, and the crackpot criticism that they somehow "do not sound right".

My pet hate, "clinical and dry", as opposed to "warm". That's FR anomalies (or lack of) and harmonic distortion in any other universe.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Presumably the onboard DAC and phone stages are of equal ability?

Yes. Also, both are very competent.

plus all the analogue and digital inputs you can wish for

Missing rec select and pre-out/main-in. Not even the A-S 1200 can offer that. A shame.

Denon

Which one?

 

[Bernard23]

Missing rec select and pre-out/main-in. Not even the A-S 1200 can offer that. A shame.


Which one?

I never used rec out, and no need for that now even though I've got an almost unused Sony TCK400 in my rack.

Denon pma-600ne. It works really well with Elac dsr62. Not found a poor review yet, several positive, on random places like master switch. No measurements, but it punches hard, sounds fun. Treble a bit iffy if you crank it, what doesn't though. I'm listening to Madonnas immaculate collection, there's stuff going on in these tracks that I don't recall, bear in mind I was using mid level 2000s gear when I last listened to this stuff properly. I think output impedance isn't particularly low though, so the Elacs are OK, other speakers might not be. Could be a lucky find and pairing, I'll be impressed if the Yamaha is noticeably better tbh.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Denon pma-600ne

I see. Never had one so far. They look sweet and Denon isn't known for shipping crap.

Elac dsr62

I got mine yesterday. At 280€ a pair i couldn't resist.

 

[Bernard23]

I got mine yesterday. At 280€ a pair i couldn't resist.

I thought I was lucky at £400

 

[TheBatsEar]

274€ in fact, it wasn't easy i tell you.

Anyway, subscribe to this thread for the best Yuropoor deals:

(Europe) Master Deals Thread on Audio Product Sales

Happy new year. Do they ship outside Germany? in my particular case, pair of Kef R3 shipped to Italy by DHL, at a cost of 53€ (i think it depends upon the packet weight)

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Rosenbloom]

I never used rec out, and no need for that now even though I've got an almost unused Sony TCK400 in my rack.

Denon pma-600ne. It works really well with Elac dsr62. Not found a poor review yet, several positive, on random places like master switch. No measurements, but it punches hard, sounds fun. Treble a bit iffy if you crank it, what doesn't though. I'm listening to Madonnas immaculate collection, there's stuff going on in these tracks that I don't recall, bear in mind I was using mid level 2000s gear when I last listened to this stuff properly. I think output impedance isn't particularly low though, so the Elacs are OK, other speakers might not be. Could be a lucky find and pairing, I'll be impressed if the Yamaha is noticeably better tbh.

I am also thinking to buy both A-S501 and DBR62 as a new setup. Please keep us posted your thought on the combo when your A-S501 arrives. Cheers

 

[Bernard23]

I am also thinking to buy both A-S501 and DBR62 as a new setup. Please keep us posted your thought on the combo when your A-S501 arrives. Cheers

Initial impressions, not much time with proper listening, ie at realistic volumes, plus I didn't calibrate my ears with the Denon prior to unhooking it.
Yamaha seems to have a more extended bass, almost too much now. I've got a -3dB low pass shelf at 45Hz, q=2 with the sub set to 45Hz crossover and about 1/3 volume. Just helps take the load off the Elacs especially when playing vinyl with the odd footfall etc. Even with the bass response partly corrected with the DSP it sounds slower than the Denon, tracks sound as though they're being played at a slower tempo, it's slightly ponderous in comparison, maybe there's still too much LF in the room that blurring things a bit. It's still a good dynamic sound though, there's plenty of grunt, you'll know when a drummer really hits the toms. What else? Detail is OK, passes my 7 track test playlist, no startling revelations, no fails either. I thibk the Denon might be getting a bit ragged when it's turned up, the yam doesn't appear to in the 3-4 tracks I tried with it cranked up a bit. Generally I'd say both amps are very similar up to a reasonable volume, the yamaha with the extra power just works better at 80+dB levels, and the bass is prodigious in my room. I'm amazed how low the Elacs go, and they punch hard too, fabulously dynamic sound.
Phono stage sounds ok too, again I have nothing to compare it too other than the Denon. Both are acceptable. Downside is, it's much bigger, so won't fit properly into my rack, even though they're similar in weight. So now I need to buy some new furniture. Based on these initial impressions, I'm inclined to keep it and move the Denon on. Given they're both roughly the same price in the real world, at least in the UK anyway, I'd opt for the Yamaha with the size and ability of speakers like the Elacs. Hope this helps in your decision, fire away any questions.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Now that you have found your way to the variable loudness side of things, it's time for new furniture indeed:

I have two sets, one for 40€, one for 70€. I assembled them to have 4 layers each and they are on rollers to easily move them so i can reach the back:

I would guess there are about 60 to 70kg hardware in it. I think it can hold 30kg per layer.
Ten out of ten, would buy again.

 

[Doodski]

Now that you have found your way to the variable loudness side of things, it's time for new furniture indeed:

I have two sets, one for 40€, one for 70€. I assembled them to have 4 layers each and they are on rollers to easily move them so i can reach the back:
View attachment 261004
View attachment 261005
I would guess there are about 60 to 70kg hardware in it. I think it can hold 30kg per layer.
Ten out of ten, would buy again.

This might sound awkward.... Lol. The back end of that Yamaha integrated amp looks fantastic. Everything is top shelf stuff!

 

[Bernard23]

Now that you have found your way to the variable loudness side of things, it's time for new furniture indeed:

I have two sets, one for 40€, one for 70€. I assembled them to have 4 layers each and they are on rollers to easily move them so i can reach the back:
View attachment 261004
View attachment 261005
I would guess there are about 60 to 70kg hardware in it. I think it can hold 30kg per layer.
Ten out of ten, would buy again.

As an Engineer, that looks ideal. However, my wife isn't an engineer, so it won't fly. In any case, it's too wide - I have limited space between a doorway and a sideboard / dresser. Additionally, the highly visible network of cables is also an issue, so ideally I need a closed back rack to hid the evils out of sight....
Nice to see the ATCs too, I'm surprised that they're not well liked in the ASR community. I had the SCM40mk2 floorstanders, which went very loud without getting out of control. It's interesting how different people are attracted to different characteristics - I'm not so concerned about imaging / soundstage, for me it's, mostly about dynamics, then detail. I generally want to be motivated to jam along loudly with guitar or drum; both the real ones and the air variety.

 

[TheBatsEar]

The back end of that Yamaha integrated amp looks fantastic

Cheers . So you like big butts? There is a self help group for that in Seattle, here is one of their meetings:

Nice to see the ATCs too, I'm surprised that they're not well liked in the ASR community.

They are considered boomer gear, sadly we only have one measurement so far with the Klippel and that was with the older SCM19.

I had the SCM40mk2 floorstanders

I'm looking for a pair in my area for some time now, 3500€ is my budget. Eventually i will get lucky.

I'm not so concerned about imaging / soundstage, for me it's, mostly about dynamics, then detail. I generally want to be motivated to jam along loudly with guitar or drum; both the real ones and the air variety.

I like the cut of your jib.

So i looked if there was a Yamaha rack for sale in my area, and there is, but it's 300€:

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/edles-hifi-rack-ambiente-von-yamaha-high-end/2334250095-172-2960

The cables don't look that bad if you clip them together on the back. I don't get why he hasn't bought rollers, they are easy to mount and a god send if you want to fix a cable.

 

[restorer-john]

Hey @TheBatsEar what's that unit below the amp? A network player or something?

 

[Doodski]

Cheers . So you like big butts? There is a self help group for that in Seattle, here is one of their meetings:

Lol...

 

[TheBatsEar]

Hey @TheBatsEar what's that unit below the amp? A network player or something?

It's the Yamaha NP-S2000. Bit obsolete in terms of software, but i wanted to have the series complete.

First shelf is a RPiZero2 as a streamer. Then a Cambridge Duo (got it after the pic was made) with a Denon DP-47F record player and AT-VM95ML stylus.
I like my record players like i like my women, fully automatic and trouble free.
Record player, RPi, TV, CD and BT are connected to a MiniDSP Flex, that then goes down to the A-S1200. Below the A-S1200 are NP-S2000, CD-S1000, T-S1000.

It's a great and never ending source of music for my neighbors, whether they like to listen or not.

 

[Bernard23]

It's the Yamaha NP-S2000. Bit obsolete in terms of software, but i wanted to have the series complete.

First shelf is a RPiZero2 as a streamer. Then a Cambridge Duo (got it after the pic was made) with a Denon DP-47F record player and AT-VM95ML stylus.
I like my record players like i like my women, fully automatic and trouble free.
Record player, RPi, TV, CD and BT are connected to a MiniDSP Flex, that then goes down to the A-S1200. Below the A-S1200 are NP-S2000, CD-S1000, T-S1000.

It's a great and never ending source of music for my neighbors, whether they like to listen or not.

I am underwhelmed by the AT95, I prefer my technics 270C with a swiss black diamond stylus.
My neighbours should meet yours, I have measured 100+dB many times in recent years. When I plug my SG or Gretsch into my 2x12 and 20W head it gets out of control very quickly.

 

[TheBatsEar]

underwhelmed by the AT95

I think it should be seen in context of cost. The VM95ML costs 140€, it's fantastic value.
Also i'm not one of those golden eared audiophiles, if it plays my 40 year old, crusty Kraftwerk LPs without jumping, it's ok.

 

[Bernard23]

I think it should be seen in context of cost. The VM95ML costs 140€, it's fantastic value.
Also i'm not one of those golden eared audiophiles, if it plays my 40 year old, crusty Kraftwerk LPs without jumping, it's ok.

I guess so, it is maybe a measure of how good the Nagaoka built cartridge was, rather than how not good the AT is.
Hey, I listen to Spotify a lot, and took the blind test, so I know my ears are not golden. Thankfully that makes me a non-audiophile.