Worst measuring loudspeaker?

[Ageve]

Some confirmation regarding the significant high frequency energy the B&W 801 D4 produces:
…
Good low end extension but man, for $50K I'd expect a smoother high end response. That would be seriously fatiguing over time. I'd also be curious what the off axis response would be and suspect limited ability to apply EQ. This makes my Perlisten S7t that much more of a bargain.

From the Stereophile review:

We don't measure or aim for a certain target in-room response. We're not tuning to a 'curve.' We develop the best engineering platform we can, and then we tune it so that we, as a group, can forget that we're listening to a pair of speakers and just get on with enjoying the listening experience. So, the target is this: Can you close your eyes and convince yourself, even for a split second, that the recording you're listening to is actually a real performer or group of performers in the room with you? If we manage to achieve that effect, we're happy.

Every speaker/series they design has a different frequency response, and D4 is the worst 800 series yet. It’s funny how the sound that makes them ”happy” keeps changing.

Bowers & Wilkins 801 D4 Signature loudspeaker | Stereophile.com

Back in August, I received an email from Editor Jim Austin. Subject line: "Want to do a big review?" He had my attention. Jim wrote that he had visited Bowers & Wilkins parent company Masimo Consumer in Carlsbad, California, for a demo of the brand-new B&W 801 D4 Signature and 805 D4 Signature...

www.stereophile.com

 

[Purité Audio]

B&W 805 D4 signature, yes you pay even more for this one.
Courtesy of Hi-Fi News

B&W 805 D4 Signature Loudspeaker Lab Report

Lab Report With its improved crossover, mid/bass motor, metal cabinet top and refined tweeter grille, just how does the Signature compare to its 'plain vanilla' 805 D4 sibling [HFN Feb '22]? In practice the distinctive dished forward response 'shape' [Graph 1, below, with 805 D4 plotted in blue]...

www.hifinews.com

 

[Purité Audio]

I never cease to be amazed…
Keith

 

[thewas]

Hey, what's wrong with a fun good old 80s v-shaped boombox tuning?

 

[Mart68]

Ten grand!

 

[Purité Audio]

These really aren’t bad Purifi/ BMS two ways but $14k.

Thrax Audio Siren loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 4: Measurements As the schedule didn't allow sufficient time for Martin Colloms's pair of Thrax Sirens to be shipped to me for measurements, Thrax arranged for a different loudspeaker to be sent from their factory in Bulgaria. This sample had the serial number 211123. I used DRA Labs'...

www.stereophile.com

And on the subject of Purif,
Phil Ward reviewed/measured these for SOS.

PresentDayProduction MUM-8

Can a direct sales model and high‑tech components make top‑level monitoring affordable? Present Day Productions believe so.

www.soundonsound.com

Keith

 

[Dialectic]

These really aren’t bad Purifi/ BMS two ways but $14k.

Thrax Audio Siren loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 4: Measurements As the schedule didn't allow sufficient time for Martin Colloms's pair of Thrax Sirens to be shipped to me for measurements, Thrax arranged for a different loudspeaker to be sent from their factory in Bulgaria. This sample had the serial number 211123. I used DRA Labs'...

www.stereophile.com

And on the subject of Purif,
Phil Ward reviewed/measured these for SOS.

PresentDayProduction MUM-8

Can a direct sales model and high‑tech components make top‑level monitoring affordable? Present Day Productions believe so.

www.soundonsound.com

Keith

John Atkinson noted this problem with the outrageously expensive Thrax two-ways that he measured:

According to the manual, the Siren "is best heard with the tweeters at, or just below, ear height." I therefore started by examining the farfield frequency response on the tweeter axis and immediately ran into a problem. This sample had a severe suckout centered on 2.7kHz in its tweeter-axis response, while MC's measurements indicated that his Sirens didn't have this suckout. The loudspeaker's step response indicated that both drive units were connected in positive acoustic polarity, so I asked Thrax designer Rumen Artarski via email what the correct polarities should be. "The bass unit is 'normal' phase, meaning the cone will move outwards with a positive voltage on the red connector. For the tweeter it is the opposite," he responded. My sample must therefore have had its tweeter miswired at the factory. I removed the Siren's rear panel and internal stuffing and rewired its tweeter in the correct inverted polarity. (Much easier to write than do.)

 

[Bjorn]

John Bowers with B&W 800 from when they made decent loudspeakers.
KeithView attachment 349995

Here are some measurements of the Matrix 801 S3:

https://www.keele-omholt-technologies.com/papers/BW-801-Matrix-vs.-CBT36-v8.1.pdf

 

[Purité Audio]

John Atkinson noted this problem with the outrageously expensive Thrax two-ways that he measured:

Oh dear QC issues, not really what one would expect in any loudspeaker especially one that costs 14k.
Keith

 

[DSJR]

Here are some measurements of the Matrix 801 S3:

https://www.keele-omholt-technologies.com/papers/BW-801-Matrix-vs.-CBT36-v8.1.pdf

M801's may be judged a bit too coloured in th emid bass-lower midrange now, but I I heard them twice. In a mastering room (big HH amp driven) they sounded a bit hard toned (their pro stands were turned sideways to lift the speakers so the tweeter/mid pod fired over the meter bridge). At my pals home, the speakers on the floor (with castors?) his 801's sounded fine and very well balanced to me.

I heard an early pair of N801's (in a large room (Classe driven I believe) and wondered where the presence range had gone, flute sounding almost muffled to me and totally unrealistic. Can anyone say if the bad measurements have got worse with each generation, or was it the main step from the boxy looking N series to the curvy stylish N series that did it?

 

[Dialectic]

Oh dear QC issues, not really what one would expect in any loudspeaker especially one that costs 14k.
Keith

Yes and an issue that even a technically sophisticated end user would have difficulty identifying.

I guess that sort of thing is bound to happen when you sell perhaps 10 pairs of these things a year.

EDIT: waiting patiently for someone to insist that, no, Thrax sells hundreds of pairs of these loudspeakers each year....in a single country!

 

[terryforsythe]

Jebus! Who thought this was a good idea?

Gershman Acoustics, apparently. Never was very impressed with their speakers when I heard them. They seem to be getting more press these days, though.

This is one of the few "bad" reviews where you don't have to read between the lines.

That type of arrangement, WTTW or WMTTMW, was actually recommended by THX for home theater back in the late 80's or early 90's.

I never liked it.

 

[CINERAMAX]

You mean the audio mafia

I'll take those chaps any day over the Compression Driver Industrial Complex .

 

[mwmkravchenko]

That type of arrangement, WTTW or WMTTMW, was actually recommended by THX for home theater back in the late 80's or early 90's.

I never liked it.

The more drivers that you use, the greater the planning on how they can, or cannot be integrated. It is totally possible to do it well. Sadly it doesn't get done well very often.

 

[terryforsythe]

The more drivers that you use, the greater the planning on how they can, or cannot be integrated. It is totally possible to do it well. Sadly it doesn't get done well very often.

The problem is having two tweaters covering the same frequency - combing effect.

 

[mwmkravchenko]

The problem is having two tweaters covering the same frequency - combing effect.

Agreed. I did say that it needed some thought process, and that it was not often well done. I have done these. But as you pointed out. 1 tweeter please.

 

[Penelinfi]

Compression data for Jamo S7-15b (Erin)
Also the 5th order HD is > 2nd order HD

 

[multichannel_guy]

Probably not the worst but $50k, B&W 801 ‘signature’, I find it even uglier than the normal 801 which is 12k cheaper.
View attachment 349994

I have actually heard these and they sounded pretty good to my ears, though i can't afford it, of course.
If we put a blindfold on you and walked you into a room with these speakers, so you didn't know which speaker it was, there is a possibility that you may enjoy it.
We should also probably put your favorite speaker that looks pretty and measures great in the same room and do some swaps. As you sit blindfolded, we could wait to see what you pick.

The blindfold is the greatest tool ever invented, when introducing a listener into this equation. It removes all biases that creep in about ugly vs pretty, great measurements vs sloppy measurements, and so on. It could reveal how sloppy a guy's tastes really are in reality, if he's picking speakers that measure sloppy when he's blindfolded.

In other words, he may just be another guy with sloppy tastes, who just says he likes speakers that measure perfectly. In other words, the blindfold is the greatest tool ever to level out the playing field for guys who identify as 'ears only' audiophools, audioscientists and so on.

When i bring that blindfold like the grimreaper, it should put great fear into the hearts of audiophools and audioscients alike, the fear of getting exposed in front of everyone.

 

[benanders]

...
The blindfold is the greatest tool ever invented, when introducing a listener into this equation. It removes all biases that creep in about ugly vs pretty, great measurements vs sloppy measurements, and so on. It could reveal how sloppy a guy's tastes really are in reality, if he's picking speakers that measure sloppy when he's blindfolded.

In other words, he may just be another guy with sloppy tastes, who just says he likes speakers that measure perfectly.
…

I generally prefer the company of folks who are curious and introspective enough to be trusted in keeping their own eyes shut.

 

[Justdafactsmaam]

I have actually heard these and they sounded pretty good to my ears, though i can't afford it, of course.
If we put a blindfold on you and walked you into a room with these speakers, so you didn't know which speaker it was, there is a possibility that you may enjoy it.
We should also probably put your favorite speaker that looks pretty and measures great in the same room and do some swaps. As you sit blindfolded, we could wait to see what you pick.

The blindfold is the greatest tool ever invented, when introducing a listener into this equation. It removes all biases that creep in about ugly vs pretty, great measurements vs sloppy measurements, and so on. It could reveal how sloppy a guy's tastes really are in reality, if he's picking speakers that measure sloppy when he's blindfolded.

In other words, he may just be another guy with sloppy tastes, who just says he likes speakers that measure perfectly. In other words, the blindfold is the greatest tool ever to level out the playing field for guys who identify as 'ears only' audiophools, audioscientists and so on.

When i bring that blindfold like the grimreaper, it should put great fear into the hearts of audiophools and audioscients alike, the fear of getting exposed in front of everyone.

Physical speaker swap takes too long. They need to be in the same space with quick switching between the speakers being compared. That can have it’s own issues when it comes to optimizing each speaker all in the same space