Worst measuring loudspeaker?

[Mart68]

Wouldn’t disagree cabinet vibrations can’t be controlled. Think it’s common practice with most in the industry to contract out enclosure design and build. Makes sense one more thing you don’t have to worry about, let a specialist take care of it.

JPW famously contracted it out to HMP Dartmoor.

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

JPW famously contracted it out to HMP Dartmoor.

Had a pair of their P1s infinite baffle design for many years, great little speaker outstanding bass

 

[garyrc]

In the first one the measurements were taken at the top of the cabinet, don’t listen to music with my ear on top of the speaker so it’s an irrelevant measurement.

[thewas] It isn't as we don't listen usually in anechoic chambers so we hear also what happens at the other surfaces from room reflections.

[garyrc] While anechoic chambers may help in design, we listen in neither anechoic chambers nor with our ears on top of the speaker. We hear speakers in listening rooms, and moving a single microphone several inches in a room can produce appreciable differences in the measurements. I would think we should measure with several mic positions with some way to combine the measures meaningfully (as room correction equipment does), or, for solo listeners, use three mic positions: left ear, right ear, and, just for fun, nose.

 

[thewas]

[thewas] It isn't as we don't listen usually in anechoic chambers so we hear also what happens at the other surfaces from room reflections.

[garyrc] While anechoic chambers may help in design, we listen in neither anechoic chambers nor with our ears on top of the speaker. We hear speakers in listening rooms, and moving a single microphone several inches in a room can produce appreciable differences in the measurements. I would think we should measure with several mic positions with some way to combine the measures meaningfully (as room correction equipment does), or, for solo listeners, use three mic positions: left ear, right ear, and, just for fun, nose.

What are you trying to say there, that cabinet vibrations don't matter as long at they are not from the front baffle?

 

[Mart68]

Had a pair of their P1s infinite baffle design for many years, great little speaker outstanding bass

all of those JPW 'P' and 'AP' series were good. I don't think JPW ever reached those heights again.

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

What are you trying to say there, that cabinet vibrations don't matter as long at they are not from the front baffle?

Anechoic chamber tests are more than useful when designing a loudspeaker. I wonder however if it would be better carrying out the final tests of the speaker in a simulated domestic setting, far removed from an Anechoic chamber? As a consumer really only interested in looking at tests that impact my listening experience.

 

[thewas]

Anechoic chamber tests are more than useful when designing a loudspeaker. I wonder however if it would be better carrying out the final tests of the speaker in a simulated domestic setting, far removed from an Anechoic chamber? As a consumer really only interested in looking at tests that impact my listening experience.

The tuning of the bass region can be helpful to be done at similar listening rooms and placement as later in the used homes especially if no EQ or bass correction options are provided, but for the region above anechoic measurements are a better descriptor of perceived quality and preference, as Toole writes:

The simple fact is that a steady-state room curve is not accurately descriptive of sound quality - comprehensive anechoic data are remarkably capable, but such data are rare.

The Harman curve is not a "target" in the sense that any flawed loudspeaker can be equalized to match it and superb sound will be the reward. The most common flaws in loudspeakers are resonances (which frequently are not visible in room curves) and irregular directivity (which cannot be corrected by equalization). The only solution to both problems is better loudspeakers, the evidence of which is in comprehensive anechoic data.

Source and more: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ut-room-curve-targets-room-eq-and-more.10950/

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

all of those JPW 'P' and 'AP' series were good. I don't think JPW ever reached those heights again.

Several years after buying the P1s thought of buying a pair of JPW floor standers advertised by Richer Sounds for little money. Got in touch with JPW and mentioned I had a pair of P1s. He said they were proud of the P1s and don’t bother with the floor standers. Think by this stage they were part of the IAG group?

 

[Mart68]

Several years after buying the P1s thought of buying a pair of JPW floor standers advertised by Richer Sounds for little money. Got in touch with JPW and mentioned I had a pair of P1s. He said they were proud of the P1s and don’t bother with the floor standers. Think by this stage they were part of the IAG group?

I don't know who bought the name but not seen them do anything new in a long time.

Years ago now the wife of a friend asked me to accompany her to buy a system. The salesman was keen to sell her some tiny Mordaunt-Short speakers which were 'flavour of the month' with all the mags at the time. He set up the system and demoed it. While this was going on I noticed some JPW P3 high up on some shelving. No grilles and some superficial cabinet damage. I asked him if we could try those instead of the dinky little MS.

He was dead against it, advising that they were outdated and that the MS were current state of the art. But I was insistent so he got them down and set them up. Absolutely no contest they murdered the little MS. My friend's wife said 'I want those!'.

To his credit the salesman did concede that the JPW were a lot better than the MS. We left the shop with him still scratching his head.

 

[Els]

I don't know who bought the name but not seen them do anything new in a long time.

Years ago now the wife of a friend asked me to accompany her to buy a system. The salesman was keen to sell her some tiny Mordaunt-Short speakers which were 'flavour of the month' with all the mags at the time. He set up the system and demoed it. While this was going on I noticed some JPW P3 high up on some shelving. No grilles and some superficial cabinet damage. I asked him if we could try those instead of the dinky little MS.

He was dead against it, advising that they were outdated and that the MS were current state of the art. But I was insistent so he got them down and set them up. Absolutely no contest they murdered the little MS. My friend's wife said 'I want those!'.

To his credit the salesman did concede that the JPW were a lot better than the MS. We left the shop with him still scratching his head.

The law off physics: A good large speaker is always better then a good small speaker, Not very technical,for you chart readers, but true, same goes for boxing.

 

[Mart68]

The law off physics: A good large speaker is always better then a good small speaker, Not very technical,for you chart readers, but true, same goes for boxing.

I said something along those lines to him when trying to convince him to let us have a listen to the JPW - he wasn't having it.

 

[fpitas]

I said something along those lines to him when trying to convince him to let us have a listen to the JPW - he wasn't having it.

My cynical side says he made more commission off the little guys.

 

[Mart68]

My cynical side says he made more commission off the little guys.

certainly possible, the M-S speakers were cheaper than the JPW but I accept that doesn't necessarily construe to less commission. Although you'd have thought he'd be happy to shift some old stock, cosmetically damaged speakers with missing grilles, regardless.

I did get the impression that he was genuinely surprised. I don't think he'd ever tried the JPWs.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I wonder however if it would be better carrying out the final tests of the speaker in a simulated domestic setting, far removed from an Anechoic chamber?

It would vary considerably depending on what one chose as representative of "simulated domestic setting."

As a consumer really only interested in looking at tests that impact my listening experience.

Then you'd probably want to pay attention only to the tests made in a room that simulated your domestic setting. Good luck with that.

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

It would vary considerably depending on what one chose as representative of "simulated domestic setting."

Then you'd probably want to pay attention only to the tests made in a room that simulated your domestic setting. Good luck with that.

Totally agree domestic settings vary a lot, method of construction, room size, furnishings etc, however an Anechoic chamber is totally unsuitable for fine tuning.

 

[garyrc]

It would vary considerably depending on what one chose as representative of "simulated domestic setting."

Then you'd probably want to pay attention only to the tests made in a room that simulated your domestic setting. Good luck with that.

Totally agree domestic settings vary a lot, method of construction, room size, furnishings etc, however an Anechoic chamber is totally unsuitable for fine tuning.

Since the literature is full of advice on room treatment, and proportions, etc., why not construct a special test room (or two, or three) with:

1. No terrible modes, favorable room proportions, size, etc.
2. Desirable amounts of, and positions of, absorption and diffusion
3. Confirmed listenability

And test speakers in there, following manufacturers' instructions, always including any measures any expert feels are important, including frequency response (pink noise and pings??), IM distortion, dispersion/directivity, usable low distortion dynamic range, etc.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Totally agree domestic settings vary a lot, method of construction, room size, furnishings etc, however an Anechoic chamber is totally unsuitable for fine tuning.

Nope. It's perfect for objectively-based product tuning.

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

Nope. It's perfect for objectively-based product tuning.

How it doesn’t relate at all to its use in a domestic settings? Bit like testing a car on a rolling road, valuable information on its performance yet covers too few bases.

 

[Purité Audio]

£70k Dali

DALI KORE Loudspeaker Lab Report

Lab Report DALI's specification for the KORE was largely met on test. Its complex crossover maintains a sub-9ohm impedance from 46Hz-12.4kHz, hitting a 3.2ohm minimum at 67Hz (a nominal 4ohm) which, with max/min phase angles of +36°/–65° (+44°/10Hz), results in a minimum EPDR of 1.2ohm/58Hz...

www.hifinews.com

You have to wonder what exactly are they thinking.
Keith

 

[fpitas]

£70k Dali

DALI KORE Loudspeaker Lab Report

Lab Report DALI's specification for the KORE was largely met on test. Its complex crossover maintains a sub-9ohm impedance from 46Hz-12.4kHz, hitting a 3.2ohm minimum at 67Hz (a nominal 4ohm) which, with max/min phase angles of +36°/–65° (+44°/10Hz), results in a minimum EPDR of 1.2ohm/58Hz...

www.hifinews.com

You have to wonder what exactly are they thinking.
Keith

Those two peaks around 2 and 3kHz are significant, they may have pushed everything down in there to make them less prominent. Yes, I would think they could do better.