Wilson Audio TuneTot Review (high-end bookshelf speaker)

[Vuki]

Why would you do that to yourself? 6.5” driver crossed at 4.6 kHz? No crossover on the woofer? Why does it look like a Seas coaxial? This thing is all kinds of strange.

Maybe because they sound great?

 

[voodooless]

Maybe because they sound great?

Whatever they sound like, they are not worth €6300 each. They contain a €200 woofer, a €100 tweeter, a minimal crossover. That’s a lot of money for a nice box…

 

[Vuki]

I guess the worth is in the eye of the buyer.

 

[Holmz]

I’m sure it will sound very different. That is the point with so called high-end stuff. You have to stick out. Best way of doing that is with flawed designs.

It maybe is not the best way, but it is likely the easiest.

 

[Pearljam5000]

A blind test between a TuneTot and a KH150 would be very interesting lol

 

[DSJR]

You'd need a proper 'real life' reference though, otherwise it's another subjective preference, albeit done blind..

People willing to lash out ten grand or more on a speaker like this wouldn't at all listen to better and cheaper, not initially and they'll defend their purchase to the death despite objective criticisms. If they play more music, then that's brilliant and let's hope it encourages more visits to live acoustic venues too to get the 'feel' of real instruments as a reference.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

Even after reading this review, i demoed and bought a pair after trying BandW 805d3 dynaudio heritage specials and spendors. Akudoris. Etc. the tunetots with some naim amplification sound fantastic. Never has so much music been played in my house. I do have an rel sub To go with them. Those who criticize the price and say just scanspeak woofers etc dont understand the further engineering and craftsmanship that goes into these. they are musical engaging and real.

I believe that here on ASR, most members, like me, will be pleased you are enjoying your purchase!
However, I will also say that "I'm sure", my Sierra LX's, "sound better", also with REL subs than your Tots!

 

[Digby]

If @dfreshness91 finds these speakers to sound "real" in his room, I can't argue with that. If I was there I might agree or not, but unless I have the opportunity to hear his system in his room, I will go along with his assessment and try to leave my measurement biases and brand snobbishness biases at the door.

Isn't this what we're all, those who listen to unamplified music at least, looking for? A greater sense of 'realness'. If it comes from a speaker that is less than flat, then maybe we should consider why that might be.

Nobody sits remotely close to where the microphones are placed in a concert hall. Are microphones picking up a different signal, with regards to frequency response/direct and indirect sound, than what we hear sitting in the audience? Likely they are (Linkwitz had something to say about this, too much power in the 2 to 4khz region when recorded, hopefully someone will come in with the link).

I understand the impulse behind getting a speaker that gives a flat response, but if recording techniques aren't a decent representation of what you hear in an actual live setting, then you may be moving further away from 'realness', rather than closer to it.

Accuracy to the recording is fine, but it is accuracy to something itself quite inaccurate. If we admit that the recording is a poor representation of the spatial qualities of a live event, then the recording itself doesn't become the yardstick by which things are measured.

The yardstick, for me, is whether something sounds more like a piano, a cello, a violin, an orchestra, and so on. For others, that never or rarely listen to unamplified music, I imagine their reference points are different.

 

[Geert]

I understand the impulse behind getting a speaker that gives a flat response, but if recording techniques aren't a decent representation of what you hear in an actual live setting, then you may be moving further away from 'realness', rather than closer to it.

Recordings are already corrected for any unsatisfying representation of the performance during production. The production is a phased process where the sound of the recording gets compared to other recordings, and gets reviewed by multiple people. The outcome is not always perfect, but anyway, there's no single frequency response correction which you can apply to all albums which makes them all sound more real.

By the way, except for the low end the estimated in-room response for these speakers is pretty fine, so this review gives no reason to question the research.

 

[Galliardist]

Isn't this what we're all, those who listen to unamplified music at least, looking for? A greater sense of 'realness'. If it comes from a speaker that is less than flat, then maybe we should consider why that might be.

Nobody sits remotely close to where the microphones are placed in a concert hall. Are microphones picking up a different signal, with regards to frequency response/direct and indirect sound, than what we hear sitting in the audience? Likely they are (Linkwitz had something to say about this, too much power in the 2 to 4khz region when recorded, hopefully someone will come in with the link).

I understand the impulse behind getting a speaker that gives a flat response, but if recording techniques aren't a decent representation of what you hear in an actual live setting, then you may be moving further away from 'realness', rather than closer to it.

Accuracy to the recording is fine, but it is accuracy to something itself quite inaccurate. If we admit that the recording is a poor representation of the spatial qualities of a live event, then the recording itself doesn't become the yardstick by which things are measured.

The yardstick, for me, is whether something sounds more like a piano, a cello, a violin, an orchestra, and so on. For others, that never or rarely listen to unamplified music, I imagine their reference points are different.

It's an interesting point. However, how much comes from speakers, and how much from everything else? Think about Harry Pearson's old saw, the "absolute sound" being that you hear when sat listening from the middle rows of a medium sized concert hall. So, we get a concert pianist and a decent piano and listen from there. Now, go to the front seats and listen again. Now go to the back row or the circle, and listen again. Now go to a different, smaller hall and repeat. Now sit next to the pianist and listen again. Now visit the pianist in the room they teach in, probably with a different piano, and listen again. Now to to the recording studio, sit next to the recording engineer, and listen yet again. Now as a thought experiment, think about listening from where the microphones are....

You hear the pianist, playing the piano, every time. If the pianist has a distinctive tone, or interprets the piece in a particular way, you'll have heard that every time, won't you? But actually it gets very complicated and conflicted. We've heard it from different distances, with different pianos, in different acoustics. One thing I've picked up from talking to and listening to interviews with professional musicians is that they in turn react to the acoustic when performing. That's apart from the player maybe bringing a different mood or changing things to sound better as they play the piece each time. Yet, you will still know it's that player who is playing, even if you are listening to the recording later.

This is an interesting thing. My memory for the actual sound of a system playing back, to judge changes, works for maybe ten seconds and then fades. Yet I can spot a recording of Julian Bream playing guitar twenty four years away from having heard him play live, in a different environment (I'm referring to him because, well, he's pretty distinctive) from any of his recordings, when he is playing a different guitar, when the engineer has added reverb, through tape hiss. Now, let's listen to a decent recording through an abominable process, using the same speakers - say over DAB+ radio, using the dreaded 64kB AAC with spectral replication. Now I can still spot him from things like his wide use of different tones from changing right hand position, but to be honest most of the cues are gone. It's a muddy mess. Play a decent recording well over cheap bluetooth speakers, though, and he becomes clearly recognisable again. The speakers don't actually have to be brilliant, as long as they don't impose too badly on the playback. That's fortunate because it allows us to have working "entry level" speakers. It's why source first was important back in the days when the best we had were imperfect turntables, by the way.

I strongly suggest that for fidelity, it is more important to reproduce the musical details of the event than the spatial ones. Harry Pearson was wrong, and in a way so are you. Because you don't have what you are trying to reproduce. If you want to get closer to the real event as it was recorded, you need to actually reproduce, as best you can, what you do have. You need to reproduce as accurately as you can the information about what the player/s are doing and why, which means at least trying to preserve some of the information about the acoustic they are playing in, as well as the attack on the keys or strings, the control of the wind players, what instrument/s are being used, and so on. Attempts to make the recording into something else, whether by the mastering engineer over-imposing on it or by you building a "musical system" rather than an accurate one - or imposing overly strong early reflections in the listening room to try to create "greater realism" - work against the recording.

The yardstick can't be to produce what you heard from seat K25 and at least I think you've got that far. But (for me, anyway) neither is it "sounds more like a piano, a cello, a violin, an orchestra"... it should sound like the pianist, the violinist, the particular orchestra.

 

[Killingbeans]

It maybe is not the best way, but it is likely the easiest.

A lot of the "highly praised" cottage industry brands definitely seem to be designing by throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.

That's one of the reasons why I can't help giggling when self-proclaimed audiophiles describe human hearing as the most acute measuring instrument in existence.

The hobby is littered with products that make it blindingly clear how much of a cheap date we actually are, when we just want to enjoy some music.

 

[Mr. Widget]

...I can't help giggling when self-proclaimed audiophiles describe human hearing as the most acute measuring instrument in existence.

The hobby is littered with products that make it blindingly clear how much of a cheap date we actually are, when we just want to enjoy some music.

An interesting conundrum to be sure.

I am a huge skeptic and have never heard much magic in speaker cables in my own home... reality or bias? I don't really care. I use 12 gauge twisted pair copper and don't concern myself with the wires.

On the other hand, I have listened to lots of electronics and while I don't get all goofy and think that this amplifier "elevated the musical performance and shined a light on the soul of the musicians", I do have preferences and have bought my equipment accordingly. Reality or bias? Don't know, but as long as my system makes me happy... does it matter?

 

[Laserjock]

An interesting conundrum to be sure.

I am a huge skeptic and have never heard much magic in speaker cables in my own home... reality or bias? I don't really care. I use 12 gauge twisted pair copper and don't concern myself with the wires.

On the other hand, I have listened to lots of electronics and while I don't get all goofy and think that this amplifier "elevated the musical performance and shined a light on the soul of the musicians", I do have preferences and have bought my equipment accordingly. Reality or bias? Don't know, but as long as my system makes me happy... does it matter?

Enjoy them.
What type of music and source?

 

[Mr. Widget]

Enjoy them.
What type of music and source?

Source is most often a NAS with lossless Red Book CD rips or high res downloads via a dedicated streaming DAC via Roon 95% of the time, or analog from vinyl through a Vendetta preamp.

Music? Acoustic Jazz and Classical to Electro-Industrial. Pretty much all over the map.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

An interesting conundrum to be sure.

I am a huge skeptic and have never heard much magic in speaker cables in my own home... reality or bias? I don't really care. I use 12 gauge twisted pair copper and don't concern myself with the wires.

On the other hand, I have listened to lots of electronics and while I don't get all goofy and think that this amplifier "elevated the musical performance and shined a light on the soul of the musicians", I do have preferences and have bought my equipment accordingly. Reality or bias? Don't know, but as long as my system makes me happy... does it matter?

My "preferences", were formed long before I knew of ASR, and were acted on from modest lifetime earnings. Even saying that, post ASR, new purchases will require much less money. Perhaps the Sierra LX's demonstrate that. About £1700, compared to the £10000, replacement Spendors would have needed.
Like you, my system makes me happy. Reasonably, when we state that on an internet forum, it may well matter to other subscribers!

 

[Mr. Widget]

My "preferences", were formed long before I knew of ASR, and were acted on from modest lifetime earnings. Even saying that, post ASR, new purchases will require much less money. Perhaps the Sierra LX's demonstrate that. About £1700, compared to the £10000, replacement Spendors would have needed.
Like you, my system makes me happy. Reasonably, when we state that on an internet forum, it may well matter to other subscribers!

I had to Google Sierra LX. Obviously I am not familiar with them, but in general you can't go too wrong with compact two-way mini monitors. There are probably several dozen out there that sound amazing.

That does create a problem for the value proposition for the subject of this thread.

As good as good mini-monitors can sound, from time to time I like to be able to recreate the sound of a timpani being struck forte or EDM at club levels. This type of playback exceeds the capabilities of most domestic speakers.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

I had to Google Sierra LX. Obviously I am not familiar with them, but in general you can't go too wrong with compact two-way mini monitors. There are probably several dozen out there that sound amazing.

That does create a problem for the value proposition for the subject of this thread.

As good as good mini-monitors can sound, from time to time I like to be able to recreate the sound of a timpani being struck forte or EDM at club levels. This type of playback exceeds the capabilities of most domestic speakers.

So what speakers will produce your timpani sound?

 

[Killingbeans]

On the other hand, I have listened to lots of electronics and while I don't get all goofy and think that this amplifier "elevated the musical performance and shined a light on the soul of the musicians", I do have preferences and have bought my equipment accordingly. Reality or bias? Don't know, but as long as my system makes me happy... does it matter?

Not really. As long as you go "This amplifier sounds better to me for some reason" and not "This amplifier is better", I don't see a problem.

I usually only get annoyed when people draw bonkers conclusions from their perceptions and insist on passing it on as a useful data point.

 

[Mr. Widget]

I usually only get annoyed when people draw bonkers conclusions from their perceptions and insist on passing it on as a useful data point.

Agreed.

And then there are the posts like, "you must be deaf if you can't hear the digital noise of a Class D amp!"

 

[Mr. Widget]

So what speakers will produce your timpani sound?

New Klipsch Jubilee speaker

I would expect it to go up. These parts are very high precision and made of costly materials. I agree that the horn is extremely important. That said, having compared several drivers on the same horn, the drivers can also make a large difference. Also, you need to match your horn and driver...

www.audiosciencereview.com

There are numerous speakers that can, but they tend to be large and costly.

The speakers I use are a DIY design that I cooked up a number of years ago. They are rather massive and require triamplification and hundreds of watts, but they do the job.

Playing Jazz Variants by The O-Zone Percussion Group, at ~95dBC peaks the sound is pretty convincing and the bass drum is stunning.