New Klipsch Jubilee speaker

[Bjorn]

I would expect it to go up. These parts are very high precision and made of costly materials.


I agree that the horn is extremely important. That said, having compared several drivers on the same horn, the drivers can also make a large difference. Also, you need to match your horn and driver. Most 2" exit drivers are based on the original Western Electric design. These are drivers like the JBL 375 and up through the TAD TD-4001. These drivers have an exit that have a slow expansion and require horns with the appropriate throat geometry. Many of the newer drivers have more rapid expansion rates and require horns designed for these drivers.

Regarding minuscule differences, I have compared the JBL 476Be (original version, not the Radian sourced version) with the TAD TD-4003. I measured both drivers on the same TH-4003 horn and they measured similarly, but the TAD had slightly lower distortion, was slightly more linear, and had a slightly higher frequency mass breakpoint. These drivers are fairly similar, but the type of Be is different and the surrounds and phase plug designs are different.


The current US importer isn't in the audiophile business. Their clients are building custom studio monitors and other pro applications. This market is less prone to the marketing voodoo of domestic audiophiledom.

One can never argue with a listening impression. And I'm not saying you are wrong either.

The Radian 951BePB measured slightly better than the JBL 476Be in the time domain in a comparison. However, the horn (which you also describe) will play a major role in such a comparison. The Radian 951 uses a 5-slit phase plug. If I'm not mistaken, so does the TAD TH-4003. I have no doubt that the TAD TH-4003 is an excellent driver and we could always customize our horn to work with the TH-4003 for those customers who would be willing to pay for it. But if it's worth it, is another matter.

 

[Sal1950]

One can never argue with a listening impression.

All this talk about these high end drivers and horns has been like passing a plate of some delicious food under my nose.
I've always believed that properly designed horns offer the best path to high fidelity reproduction.
I could never afford or have room for one of these delicious sound meals you discuss but,
I am very pleased with the JBL HDI-3600 speakers I got last year. Using JBL's 2410H-2 compression driver into their
latest HDI design wave guide delivers an outstanding combination of inner detail, smooth FR, dynamics and even dispersion.
Truly a excellent sounding modern horn design.
As good as I can possibly afford. I'm very happy.

 

[Bjorn]

All this talk about these high end drivers and horns has been like passing a plate of some delicious food under my nose.
I've always believed that properly designed horns offer the best path to high fidelity reproduction.
I could never afford or have room for one of these delicious sound meals you discuss but,
I am very pleased with the JBL HDI-3600 speakers I got last year. Using JBL's 2410H-2 compression driver into their
latest HDI design wave guide delivers an outstanding combination of inner detail, smooth FR, dynamics and even dispersion.
Truly a excellent sounding modern horn design.
As good as I can possibly afford. I'm very happy.

Haha, I like your analogy! Good to hear you're happy with your speakers.

To give you a smell of tastier food, I can say that a very large horn is a game changer in sound quality compared to smaller horns. Even the JBL 2384 horn, which many would consider big just can match the bigger ones by any means. And using a large midbass horn instead of a front firing woofer takes it to another level.

We're actually selling a prototype of these now (the black pair) to a fairly low cost, but it's not for everyone considering the size (110 cm width) and shipping cost a long way abroad can be high.

 

[Sal1950]

And using a large midbass horn instead of a front firing woofer takes it to another level.

Sure, that was one of the big advantages of the La Scala's I ran for three decades.
Using a horn to go as deep as size allows in the lower mid/bass range makes for continuity
of the horn designs strengths.

 

[Tom C]

Haha, I like your analogy! Good to hear you're happy with your speakers.

To give you a smell of tastier food, I can say that a very large horn is a game changer in sound quality compared to smaller horns. Even the JBL 2384 horn, which many would consider big just can match the bigger ones by any means. And using a large midbass horn instead of a front firing woofer takes it to another level.

We're actually selling a prototype of these now (the black pair) to a fairly low cost, but it's not for everyone considering the size (110 cm width) and shipping cost a long way abroad can be high.

View attachment 250781

This is a truly legitimate argument for floor standers being superior to standmount speakers. You just can’t fit a horn like that into a standmount cabinet.

 

[Mr. Widget]

All this talk about these high end drivers and horns has been like passing a plate of some delicious food under my nose.
I've always believed that properly designed horns offer the best path to high fidelity reproduction.

Just as Paul Klipsch always said... and I agree with him. I love the designs and the thinking behind the better Klipsch speakers. I have owned examples of every one of their line up from the 1970s and 1980s except for the Belle Klipsch and Forte. Unfortunately it is very difficult to make reasonably sized horns not sound like horns and while I always have enjoyed the Klipsch speakers I found their warts too distracting.

I am very pleased with the JBL HDI-3600 speakers I got last year. Using JBL's 2410H-2 compression driver into their
latest HDI design wave guide delivers an outstanding combination of inner detail, smooth FR, dynamics and even dispersion.
Truly a excellent sounding modern horn design.
As good as I can possibly afford. I'm very happy.

I haven't heard this line from JBL, but many of their designs from the mid 2000s up to the present are quite good, and I agree with you that their affordable designs are really bargains.

To give you a smell of tastier food, I can say that a very large horn is a game changer in sound quality compared to smaller horns. Even the JBL 2384 horn, which many would consider big just can match the bigger ones by any means. And using a large midbass horn instead of a front firing woofer takes it to another level.

I understand and like your thinking. That said, I could never live with an appropriately large horn in a domestic setting, so I have chosen my compromises accordingly. I have gone with a moderately high sensitivity bass/midbass driver below the more modest sized TH-4003 horn. This is then augmented by the 15" low bass driver.

Yes, adding the ET-703 UHF driver makes a mess of the DI and adds a ton of comb filtered lumps and bumps, but I have found that even though this looks terrible in measured response it bothers me less than extending the highs from the larger driver. These are personal choice trade offs. The beauty of DIY is the listener gets to pick the trade offs. If you have the patience and time to explore options you can arrive at a pleasant destination and probably not where you thought you would end. Also DIY has allowed me to afford speakers that would have been impossible otherwise.

To arrive at the design pictured below, every driver was originally a different size, brand, and type and the physical layout was tested and prototyped in several configurations before arriving at this design. I have proven to be very hard to please in my choice of loudspeakers... this design has managed to continue to please me for a shockingly long time.

 

[Sal1950]

I have proven to be very hard to please in my choice of loudspeakers... this design has managed to continue to please me for a shockingly long time.

I've no idea what they sound like but if it's half as good as the beautiful woodwork shown in the pictures I imagine your in Hi Fi Heaven..
Congrats on a job exceptionally well done!
BTW, beware the figures on the right hand speaker.. I've seen them come to life and be very dangerous in various movies.

 

[Mr. Widget]

I've no idea what they sound like but if it's half as good as the beautiful woodwork shown in the pictures I imagine your in Hi Fi Heaven..
Congrats on a job exceptionally well done!
BTW, beware the figures on the right hand speaker.. I've seen them come to life and be very dangerous in various movies.

Thanks for the compliments. I was lucky to find such nice veneer... and yes, I still get goose bumps listening to them.

Regarding the sound. They work for me, so that is a success!

Actually, there is a bit more back story. These are the original design mules that were developed for a paying customer. I finished them several years after the original project. The customer was a serial audiophile having owned virtually every known brand of high end speaker with them cycling through about every six months. I delivered his pair of these speakers in 2007. They are still his primary speakers 15 years later. So at least two of us are pleased with them.

Thanks for the tip about the little figures. I'll keep an eye on them.

 

[Canuck57]

Beautiful room and speakers Mr. Widget!

 

[Mr. Widget]

Beautiful room and speakers Mr. Widget!

Thanks.

As you can see in this photo, I am spoiled. The room has only two purposes. A repository for some of our collection of oddities and placing my back side in the sweet spot so that I can dive deep into my favorite music.

 

[Doodski]

Thanks.

As you can see in this photo, I am spoiled. The room has only two purposes. A repository for some of our collection of oddities and placing my back side in the sweet spot so that I can dive deep into my favorite music.

View attachment 251012

Are those JBLs? They appear to be thumpers with some nice horns.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Are those JBLs? They appear to be thumpers with some nice horns.

The 15" woofer is a JBL/Revel driver. It was originally developed for the original Revel Sub15 and later used in a JBL subwoofer that was primarily exported to Japan.

The other three drivers are all TADs.

 

[Doodski]

The 15" woofer is a JBL/Revel driver. It was originally developed for the original Revel Sub15 and later used in a JBL subwoofer that was primarily exported to Japan.

The other three drivers are all TADs.

Very cool gear. What a combO too. TAD is rare as hens' teeth?

 

[Mr. Widget]

TAD is rare as hens' teeth?

The design work and driver procurement was almost 20 years ago. At the time all of these drivers were in production, but even then it would occasionally take 6 month or longer between ordering the drivers and having those precious boxes arrive.

 

[Doodski]

The design work and driver procurement was almost 20 years ago. At the time all of these drivers were in production, but even then it would occasionally take 6 month or longer between ordering the drivers and having those precious boxes arrive.

I feel it! I was able to get my hands on a matched pair of KEF 107.2 tweeters for a project of mine. By the time the word cleared the upper brass and when they arrived was ~4 months. I was building out to ~7 months so that worked out very well. They eventually succumbed to a spike and both where damaged due to being used in a active system without blocking caps. Is that a tweeter being the circular clear or silver object to the side of the front of the JBL-TAD speaker?

 

[Mr. Widget]

I feel it! I was able to get my hands on a matched pair of KEF 107.2 tweeters for a project of mine. By the time the word cleared the upper brass and when they arrived was ~4 months. I was building out to ~7 months so that worked out very well. They eventually succumbed to a spike and both where damaged due to being used in a active system without blocking caps. Is that a tweeter being the circular clear or silver object to the side of the front of the JBL-TAD speaker?

Ouch!

Yes, my system is also active. I have a large value protection cap on the mid driver. It is out of the bandpass of the mid driver. There is a passive network on the tweeter. The tweeter is a TAD ET-703 located below the mid horn. As I mentioned above, it isn't ideal in this application but despite the problems it creates the system still works well.

 

[Sal1950]

BTW, beware the figures on the right hand speaker.. I've seen them come to life and be very dangerous

Thanks for the tip about the little figures. I'll keep an eye on them.

 

[garyrc]

Just as Paul Klipsch always said... and I agree with him. I love the designs and the thinking behind the better Klipsch speakers. I have owned examples of every one of their line up from the 1970s and 1980s except for the Belle Klipsch and Forte. Unfortunately it is very difficult to make reasonably sized horns not sound like horns and while I always have enjoyed the Klipsch speakers I found their warts too distracting.

Beautiful room, speakers, and furnishings.

We have Klipschorns sealed into the front corners, with stock updates installed in 2006, making them into AK5s (or 4s, one resistor difference) and a slightly modified Belle center channel (flush mounted in a bump out going into the back yard to accommodate the longer K401 horn, to match the ones in the Klipschorns.. There is a 130" wide projection screen that rolls down in front of the Belle, with EQ compensating for the 1.5 dB treble loss at 16K caused by the "Acoustically Transparent" screen.

We find that Audyssey and about a day of team effort works as an effective Wart Begone for the Klipsches, at least in our treated room. The surrounds (Heresy IIs) are someone lesser, but cutting them off at 80Hz, and reassigning the lower bass to the subwoofer fixes that. For a very few movies and music CDs, that are recorded as dry as the Great Salt Lake and the Dead Sea soon will be, we add a bit of Lexicon's "User 9 Reverb Large" through the Heresy II surrounds ONLY.

 

[Mr. Widget]

We have Klipschorns sealed into the front corners, with stock updates installed in 2006, making them into AK5s (or 4s, one resistor difference) and a slightly modified Belle center channel (flush mounted in a bump out going into the back yard to accommodate the longer K401 horn, to match the ones in the Klipschorns.. There is a 130" wide projection screen that rolls down in front of the Belle, with EQ compensating for the 1.5 dB treble loss at 16K caused by the "Acoustically Transparent" screen.

We find that Audyssey and about a day of team effort works as an effective Wart Begone for the Klipsches, at least in our treated room. The surrounds (Heresy IIs) are someone lesser, but cutting them off at 80Hz, and reassigning the lower bass to the subwoofer fixes that. For a very few movies and music CDs, that are recorded as dry as the Great Salt Lake and the Dead Sea soon will be, we add a bit of Lexicon's "User 9 Reverb Large" through the Heresy II surrounds ONLY.

One of the biggest problems with the Klipschorns is having the right room. I never did. If you have that, lucky you!
That fully horn loaded design is very compelling.

 

[Sal1950]

That fully horn loaded design is very compelling.

Yes, and that combined with some modern DSP might make for something pretty nice
I'm not sure it could ever match the quality of the M2's horn and compression driver section though.