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Wilson Audio TuneTot Review (high-end bookshelf speaker)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 364 58.8%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 186 30.0%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 44 7.1%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 25 4.0%

  • Total voters
    619

thewas

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I never said that I expect it to be the same as a design with smooth on axis FR. They have different balance between direct and indirect sound. I think it is not a good idea to EQ it to make it a smooth on axis FR and smooth directivity speaker.
Above statement tells that you still haven't understood it, you can't change directivity by EQ. Also writing "They have different balance between direct and indirect sound" is nothing different of an euphemism of poor directivity with all the problems and disadvantages it brings.
 

MrHifiTunes

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Your point of view is just to justify it it’s flaws. That’s doesn’t help anyone either. May be it would make someone waste their hard earned money on this, which is less helpful than what you think I am doing
That is not my point at all.
I try to understand why they designed it the way they did.
I posted my view on things here to check if it is can make sense or not.
What I see here is a different approach then all other speakers we seen so far.
For me it is not a coincidences that the poor directivity and poor on axis make a smooth in room response.
Also 2 bumps in the on axis? How do you do that? How you make the 5db dip at 1k2 and 2k8?

When designing a bad speaker, one have 1 dip at crossover in a 2-way and bad directivity there.

Just trying to understand and learn from it. Get to know the science behind it.
But one need to be open mindend...

And if one spent its hard earned money on a bookshelf of 10K....he better get some treatment as in my view he can not control his budget. This speaker targets a different group.
 

DWI

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Do you think it’s necessary to listen to the Wilson audio before commenting here ? Do you think everyone who joins your side has listened it?
Amir listened to the speaker and made a well balanced assessment, good and bad, so observations from people who have listened to it, or similar from the same brand, would be nice. Maybe then readers would better understand why this product exists.

If you’ve never heard a Wilson speaker, on measurements alone think this one is broken and anyone who buys it a fool, a simple Yes will do.
 

DWI

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That is not my point at all.
I try to understand why they designed it the way they did.
I posted my view on things here to check if it is can make sense or not.
What I see here is a different approach then all other speakers we seen so far.
For me it is not a coincidences that the poor directivity and poor on axis make a smooth in room response.
Also 2 bumps in the on axis? How do you do that? How you make the 5db dip at 1k2 and 2k8?

When designing a bad speaker, one have 1 dip at crossover in a 2-way and bad directivity there.

Just trying to understand and learn from it. Get to know the science behind it.
But one need to be open mindend...

And if one spent its hard earned money on a bookshelf of 10K....he better get some treatment as in my view he can not control his budget. This speaker targets a different group.

I think the purpose of this speaker is to provide enjoyable sound in sub-optimal conditions where room treatment is not an option.

We spent 10 months rebuilding a room, including room treatment, and it cost a lot more than 10k. The cost was because it is all hidden. So I can see how 10k could be a very cost-effective option for some people.
 

Crosstalk

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If you’ve never heard a Wilson speaker, on measurements alone think this one is broken and anyone who buys it a fool, a simple Yes will do.
So, will it only count for people who think it’s bad or also for the people who thinks it’s good?
 

Crosstalk

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Rather than replying to every question with a question, it would just be nice to know if I summarised your standpoint accurately.
We both stick to our both ends, but I guess we both are entitled to our own opinion. You can’t change mine and I can’t change yours

I believe in objective performance and it’s my standpoint. I value it more than anything when it comes to audio devices. I understand the importance of room correction at the listening spot. For me I would rather buy a Genelec with DSP at this price and then use it to correct the flaws at my listening spot.

I would not try to make it complicated by adding a speaker with significant midbass hump which is mostly the part that get boosted in rooms with more furniture. Yeah you can correct it using DSP, but IMO that is something which shouldn’t be there at the first place. Other than that it’s an ok response, not up to the mark comparing to something like a genelec
 

MrHifiTunes

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Above statement tells that you still haven't understood it, you can't change directivity by EQ. Also writing "They have different balance between direct and indirect sound" is nothing different of an euphemism of poor directivity with all the problems and disadvantages it brings.
What I understand from directivity boils down to what is explained here.

In the video you see at 11:40 some info on directivity mismatch and how that mismatch gives you bad "in room"
This is the case for flat on axis FR speakers. But in this case the "in-room" is smooth...

That is what I try to understand from this design.

What problems you see this speaker has because of it poor directivity? They have wide dispersion and smooth in-room.
Again I think the approach they use is different and not what we used too and surely not textbook.
 

DSJR

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Suffolk Coastal, UK
Anyone who reads this thread would hold off from buying a pair
WE might here, assuming we were fortunate enough to have ten or eleven grand available to spend on such a luxury small speaker, but it was confirmed to me by two separate dealers selling boxes at this price and above that the majority of buyers don't ever read forums, nor reviews especially. Nah, a lay person stumbling on this review will avoid the 'pretty picture plots' as they wouldn't understand them initially and if they could trawl the comments and defense, they'd go with the defense as these people (probably more mature couples actually) listen to general music in real rooms not specially treated audio rooms as enthusiasts.

Something else - are we condemning the entire brand on the compromises made in this starter model? I mean, I had a downer on Majico on costs and appearance with absolutely no idea they actually do have sota test equipment to make their bling-boxes perform as well as a passive tower type can. Not sure it's easy to measure Wilson's larger less compromised models well as they're huge and designed as much as visual statements as anything else with the multiple drivers possibly lobing vertically if you sit too close to them?

At the end of the day and with deep respect to Purite Audio's Keith here (the one objectively serious UK high end dealer I can think of judging by the speakers he stocks). For ten (£11500 in the UK) grand and for waf factor, I'd try to find a good used recent spec pair of ATC 50ASL's, as they're honest specced and good looking if 'trad' furniture, have dedicated low noise amps and carefully optimised grilles built in and don't make your trad-normal living/listening area look like Mission Control (we don't all live in rooms with acoustics like a bathroom although that seems to be a modern trend!!!)
 
Last edited:

thewas

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In the video you see at 11:40 some info on directivity mismatch and how that mismatch gives you bad "in room"
This is the case for flat on axis FR speakers. But in this case the "in-room" is smooth...
Because as said the on-axis FR is not linear either, so the flawed on-axis response tries to compensate the flawed directivity, leading to a smooth LP FR, but such is not perceived as good/neutral sounding as from a loudspeaker which achieves it from both a smooth on-axis FR and directivity.

What problems you see this speaker has because of it poor directivity? They have wide dispersion and smooth in-room.
The poor directivity is one of its problems, anyway I have explained it already several times, if you cannot or don't want to understand it, there is nothing I can do.

Again I think the approach they use is different and not what we used too and surely not textbook.
Its an "old-school" approach when better solutions weren't widely available and nothing new, just the typical audiophile approach of using good/expensive materials/drivers but combine them poorly due to lack of high end R&D and engineering, but its more clever for the target market to offer many colour options and 100+ pages catalogues...
 

MrHifiTunes

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Because as said the on-axis FR is not linear either, so the flawed on-axis response tries to compensate the flawed directivity, leading to a smooth LP FR, but such is not perceived as good/neutral sounding as from a loudspeaker which achieves it from both a smooth on-axis FR and directivity.
Amir liked seems to like it, even more then a textbook revel M106. But mentioned his reflective room so does Wilson.
The poor directivity is one of its problems, anyway I have explained it already several times, if you cannot or don't want to understand it, there is nothing I can do.
What I get from your writing is what the textbook said, that I understand clearly.
flat FR and smooth directivity = good sound.
flat FR and wobbly directivity is bad sound.

This design isnt textbook and one need to think out of the box.
Wobbly on axis and wobbly directivity when done in the right places and amounts gives also smooth in-room and good sound. (according to the listening impression.)
 

Bob from Florida

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Here's a thought. Reviews have useful information for about the first 2-3 pages, so close those threads to further comment at that point. That way it remains a review thread. Those wishing to cheer or trash the product can then open their "cheer or trash" thread. Just a thought.
 

Crosstalk

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What I understand from directivity boils down to what is explained here.

In the video you see at 11:40 some info on directivity mismatch and how that mismatch gives you bad "in room"
This is the case for flat on axis FR speakers. But in this case the "in-room" is smooth...

That is what I try to understand from this design.

What problems you see this speaker has because of it poor directivity? They have wide dispersion and smooth in-room.
Again I think the approach they use is different and not what we used too and surely not textbook.
If you increase this region, the drums would sound “louder”, in real life, percussion instruments can be louder in a band which can let people relate to a live event may be. I felt the same when I audiotioned the canton reference 7k which has a 3db peak in the midbass. Honestly I liked it a lot but I was listening only on the sweet spot so I don’t know if that speaker is any good with directivity or in a different room.

But once I switched a vocalist with some who has some deep voice, suddenly his voice sounded unnaturally chesty but some people may like it. I have heard the same song on really flat gear before. This was a different feel but at the back of my mind I felt like I won’t like it long term
 

MrHifiTunes

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If you increase this region, the drums would sound “louder”, in real life, percussion instruments can be louder in a band which can let people relate to a live event may be. I felt the same when I audiotioned the canton reference 7k which has a 3db peak in the midbass. Honestly I liked it a lot but I was listening only on the sweet spot so I don’t know if that speaker is any good with directivity or in a different room.

But once I switched a vocalist with some who has some deep voice, suddenly his voice sounded unnaturally chesty but some people may like it. I have heard the same song on really flat gear before. This was a different feel but at the back of my mind I felt like I won’t like it long term

Where do they "increase"? Their in-room is textbook sloped/flat. (I hope you are not talking about the bass bump. )

They just let in more indirect sound but at the same time reduce the direct sound on certain frequencies in the 1-3k area.
 
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