Wilson Audio TuneTot Review (high-end bookshelf speaker)

[Zensō]

I'm just trying to comprehend why anyone would buy these speakers for 10k, limitless funds or not.

These Wilsons are status goods, not hifi.

 

[orangejello]

These Wilsons are status goods, not hifi.

Here is the abstract of the paper you cited:

“Conspicuous consumption was first identified and discussed by Thorstein Veblen in his classic text on The Theory of the Leisure Class published in 1899. Since that time, business organisations have encouraged and exploited the demand for status goods and today the supply of products which serve as social symbols is highly organised and profitable. This paper looks at the ways in which manufacturers, advertisers and retailers have combined to promote status-seeking as an acceptable form of consumer behaviour and at how the market for status goods has been expanded by corporate strategies geared to securing rapid rates of social obsolescence in the conspicuous goods and services on offer. The ethical arguments for and against such business activity are then examined in detail.”

 

[pablolie]

Audio is in no way unique in luxury "brand management". There's a reason Toyota offers Lexus, Nissan Infiniti etc etc... and a Hermes bag isn't any more functional than a $50 flea-market copy. That has all been discussed at infinitum in this forum. It's not a crime to satisfy a market need, in fact it is a basic principle of market economy.
It's up to each and any of us to make decisions based on our priorities and preferences. I never feel compelled to tell another audio aficionado why I disagree with their equipment choice and why mine is "better" - in fact, I enjoy talking to someone who shares a hobby 99.9% of people couldn't care less about. :-D

 

[orangejello]

Audio is in no way unique in luxury "brand management". There's a reason Toyota offers Lexus, Nissan Infiniti etc etc... and a Hermes bag isn't any more functional than a $50 flea-market copy. That has all been discussed at infinitum in this forum. It's not a crime to satisfy a market need, in fact it is a basic principle of market economy.
It's up to each and any of us to make decisions based on our priorities and preferences. I never feel compelled to tell another audio aficionado why I disagree with their equipment choice and why mine is "better" - in fact, I enjoy talking to someone who shares a hobby 99.9% of people couldn't care less about. :-D

No one said it was a crime. But it could be argued that is somewhat perverse. Markets are not the only guiding principle in the universe.

 

[pablolie]

No one said it was a crime. But it could be argued that is somewhat perverse. Markets are not the only guiding principle in the universe.

I fully agree not everything should or can be viewed as something subject to market economy rules - although sadly often it is more practical given a pretty universal benchmark is cost: sadly, people don't seem to care much about stuff that is free. On Christmas Day we better be quite aware of it. Many awesome things are perfectly free, or traded and exchanged for the sake of mutual love.
OTOH as soon as something has a price tag, hey... For every savvy buyer in any area there's a fool born every minute in others, and I know my personal buying decisions have fallen in both territories at times :-D

 

[orangejello]

I fully agree not everything should or can be viewed as something subject to market economy rules - although sadly often it is more practical given a pretty universal benchmark is cost: sadly, people don't seem to care much about stuff that is free. On Christmas Day we better be quite aware of it. Many awesome things are perfectly free, or traded and exchanged for the sake of mutual love.
OTOH as soon as something has a price tag, hey... For every savvy buyer in any area there's a fool born every minute in others, and I know my personal buying decisions have fallen in both territories at times :-D

Cheers.

 

[DWI]

Since you seem totally oblivious, it might be important to point out to you out that you sound just like Thurston Howell III of Gilligan’s Island fame. Also thanks for letting us know that you paid cash for your Wilson’s. Wow, impressive.

I was brought up never to buy something I can’t afford, so I don’t buy anything on credit and don’t have a credit card.

 

[Crosstalk]

Some can be the real science, but some can not.
What acoustic instrument qualities attracted the listeners is not that obvious.
People can say they have different tastes, but what leads to the tastes?
When people can be educated with a specific method from starting, that specific method can be generally becomes a rule.
People grew up with the small LS3/5A wouldn't and never feel any problem for the mid-bass boost and lacking real bass at the same time.
Same with the instruments, if you are not familiar with and settle on a specific sound, it's less obvious to judge what is good or not unless there are broken qualities.
Some qualities can be more generally agreed, but some are not.
This is the origin of the arguing.
Does anyone know your judgment for sound is coming from your DNA or the educated illusion?
Accept both and admit to include the very restricted parameters to call it science.

These Wilsons are status goods, not hifi.

Audio is in no way unique in luxury "brand management". There's a reason Toyota offers Lexus, Nissan Infiniti etc etc... and a Hermes bag isn't any more functional than a $50 flea-market copy. That has all been discussed at infinitum in this forum. It's not a crime to satisfy a market need, in fact it is a basic principle of market economy.
It's up to each and any of us to make decisions based on our priorities and preferences. I never feel compelled to tell another audio aficionado why I disagree with their equipment choice and why mine is "better" - in fact, I enjoy talking to someone who shares a hobby 99.9% of people couldn't care less about. :-D

A Hermes bag isn’t any functional as a ikea flea bag. If bags function is to carry stuff around and if both does it well and one also do the status improvement on the top of it I can understand.

But when the Hermes bag despite being more exepensive has a hole at the bottom which might lead to me loosing stuff kept in it, it’s functionally flawed.

Same with Wilson’s, it’s functionally flawed in reproducing the recording. So, jt doesn’t do it’s basics. So, it’s pointless regardless of it’s cost no matter who anyone try to justify

 

[Crosstalk]

I was brought up never to buy something I can’t afford, so I don’t buy anything on credit and don’t have a credit card.

This whole forum is about accurate sound reproduction. If you have read the review you must have noticed it anyway by now that it’s flawed. There is nothing justifiable to change the fact. If you have money don’t feed these people who doesn’t do their job(engineering a speaker) well. Instead my humble opinion is to spend on struggling hard working engineers who create value to the industry than some fancy painted good for nothing boxes

 

[Pdxwayne]

As I said, close the port and add a sub or two. Still works for me.

I would not mind getting a pair as Christmas gift.

 

[Xulonn]

These Wilsons are status goods, not hifi.

An old audio term that is seldom used these days comes to mind when referring to these Wilson speakers - "Mid-Fi" rather than Hi-Fi...

Also, if the engineering design targets are not met and are not reflected in the corporate sales pitch, that would seem to be a serious disconnect.

 

[DWI]

Audio is in no way unique in luxury "brand management". There's a reason Toyota offers Lexus, Nissan Infiniti etc etc... and a Hermes bag isn't any more functional than a $50 flea-market copy. That has all been discussed at infinitum in this forum. It's not a crime to satisfy a market need, in fact it is a basic principle of market economy.
It's up to each and any of us to make decisions based on our priorities and preferences. I never feel compelled to tell another audio aficionado why I disagree with their equipment choice and why mine is "better" - in fact, I enjoy talking to someone who shares a hobby 99.9% of people couldn't care less about. :-D

I once bought a big Lexus about 15 years ago because I thought it was about time I had a decent car. By far the biggest mistake I personally ever made, I just don’t get cars, but I have friends who get great pleasure from far more exotic and much more expensive cars, and I fully understand why.

My wife has a shoe and handbag thing, which is entirely for her own pleasure. She’s not trying to impress anyone. Likewise, my wife picked out the Wilson on looks alone (she had been complaining about our excellent but ugly speakers for years) and after trying a couple of other speakers, we reverted to the ones she liked. Like her shoes, they were bought for our pleasure, I don’t have audiophile friends and only one friend with a 2-channel stereo. When friends come round they remark at my turntable, they don’t even notice the speakers. Our friends have Sonos or Alexa.

The pair I have really are very pleasurable to listen to. The upper midrange and treble especially, Josquin, baroque instrumental, Handel oratorios, that sort of thing. With some speakers that end of the musical spectrum can be a bit too safe and rolled off, others bright and fatiguing. These speakers seem to get it just right. I don’t know how you measure that, but it’s easy to hear.

In real life the Tunetot are not that small, but still of a size I can imagine them having bass issues. The Focal Utopia Colour EVO, which we had on loan, are not much bigger, had fantastic bass, quite astonishing for the size of the speaker. After two days the top end was so fatiguing I took them back. The dealer was a little surprised.

 

[bennybbbx]

I have a table done of the bass freq at 40 50 60 hz of speakers that are measured here. and just for fun i do it from the tunetot. such a table is also usefull for all speakers. for 0 db i use 500 hz the line for estimatet room response. the values are the db loss in - .boost in + at 40 50 and 60 hz. the results of tune tot at 50 and 60 hz where the base drum is look really really worse

40 hz 50 hz 60 hz
Kali LP6 -5 0 0
JBL 104 -23 -11 -4
Eris 3.5 -24 -11 -4
iloud mtm -17 -2 1
dynaudio ly5 -18 -10 -5
Neumann KH 80 -20 -8 0
Neumann KH 120 -9 0 1.5
genelec 8030 -14 -4 1
LS50 meta -14 -6 -4
revel M16 -7 -3 0

Wilson TuneTot -19 -16 -10

 

[amirm]

@amirm has mentioned that he sometimes contacts manufacturers before reviews are posted.
Have you had any contact with Wilson audio, Amir?

I only do that when I already have a relationship with the company. In this case I do not so did not do that.

 

[orangejello]

I once bought a big Lexus about 15 years ago because I thought it was about time I had a decent car. By far the biggest mistake I personally ever made, I just don’t get cars, but I have friends who get great pleasure from far more exotic and much more expensive cars, and I fully understand why.

My wife has a shoe and handbag thing, which is entirely for her own pleasure. She’s not trying to impress anyone. Likewise, my wife picked out the Wilson on looks alone (she had been complaining about our excellent but ugly speakers for years) and after trying a couple of other speakers, we reverted to the ones she liked. Like her shoes, they were bought for our pleasure, I don’t have audiophile friends and only one friend with a 2-channel stereo. When friends come round they remark at my turntable, they don’t even notice the speakers. Our friends have Sonos or Alexa.

The pair I have really are very pleasurable to listen to. The upper midrange and treble especially, Josquin, baroque instrumental, Handel oratorios, that sort of thing. With some speakers that end of the musical spectrum can be a bit too safe and rolled off, others bright and fatiguing. These speakers seem to get it just right. I don’t know how you measure that, but it’s easy to hear.

In real life the Tunetot are not that small, but still of a size I can imagine them having bass issues. The Focal Utopia Colour EVO, which we had on loan, are not much bigger, had fantastic bass, quite astonishing for the size of the speaker. After two days the top end was so fatiguing I took them back. The dealer was a little surprised.

Thurston, shouldn’t you be spending Christmas with Lovey?

 

[Laserjock]

@DWI do your Wilson towers sound like these TuneTots or have you heard these?

 

[MattHooper]

This whole forum is about accurate sound reproduction.

My take is that, more fundamentally, this forum is "about" accurately understanding what is happening in an audio product, and minimizing bullshit in doing so. It's about producing and looking at accurate information about products, which includes measurements and correspondence to audible consequences.

Personal Preference has always been acknowledged as valid. IF you are seeking accuracy, then the reviews and discussion of audio products here can help inform about which products are more or less along that continuum. But IF you aren't seeking accuracy....the information can still be informative. It's really about simply putting the accurate information out there (rather than woo-woo bullshit) so someone can make informed decisions about gear.

That's my take anyway. (And it only partially covers the discussions that go on here, which are pretty wide-ranging).

If you have read the review you must have noticed it anyway by now that it’s flawed. There is nothing justifiable to change the fact. If you have money don’t feed these people who doesn’t do their job(engineering a speaker) well.

This is projecting your own values, which are not necessarily shared precisely by others. Some people seem unable to accept that some audio designers don't share their own precise goal. Speaker manufacturers like Wilson, B+W (not to mention Zu and others) just don't seem to share the same goal of producing speakers designed for perfect neutrality, or other parameters. They are going for engineering a specific "sound."
You may not like that...but it doesn't make sense to simply dismiss a product as "flawed" because it doesn't meet your goals, where it may meet the goals of the designer or some portion of people attracted to the design.

Amirm, for instance, noted subjectively that the Wilson Tune Tot sounded "larger" than the Revel speaker he compared it to (the large scale of sound from the Tune Tot being a common feature remarked upon in reviews), and he also remarked it had a certain appealing vividness and clarity, ultimately saying "Overall, I preferred the TuneTot over Revel." Over a REVEL!

Now it could be that ultimately Amirm would find the uneven performance across a variety of material on the Tune Tot might push him...or someone else here...to ultimately stick with a Revel speaker. On the other hand, someone ELSE may find the scale of sound, sense of detail and vividness etc of the Tune Tot to be overall more satisfying. In which case...any value proposition for buying the Tune Tot is STRICTLY UP TO THAT PERSON and not you to tell anyone "don't pay some company for making a product that actually met their own goals and which actually please some customers."

Instead my humble opinion is to spend on struggling hard working engineers who create value to the industry than some fancy painted good for nothing boxes

I've seen similar views expressed about all sorts of gear. One could also say "please don't give your money to a company making a pricey tube amplifier when there are more accurate, more affordable amplifiers made by other hard working people." But, sorry...I really like tube amplifiers and I'm happy to pay for them. Plus...I think it's facile to presume the engineers for these products that you dismiss might not be as "hard working." They may not be working precisely towards your desired goal; that doesn't mean they don't put a lot of hard work in to their products.

 

[watchnerd]

If you won't buy topping for it's looks then it means either you would buy an "expensive" good looking product of similar technical performance or an "inferior" technically but good looking product at same price of topping. In either case you are at wrong place because this website focusses on technical measured performance also keeping the price in mind. But still it's your choice where you want to spend your money.

What a bunch of rubbish.

There is nothing anti-science or anti-objectivist about having preferences for particular cosmetics and buying accordingly.

Plenty of us have been on this site far longer and don't find it necessary to be so extremist in outlook.

 

[DanielT]

My take is that, more fundamentally, this forum is "about" accurately understanding what is happening in an audio product, and minimizing bullshit in doing so. It's about producing and looking at accurate information about products, which includes measurements and correspondence to audible consequences.

Personal Preference has always been acknowledged as valid. IF you are seeking accuracy, then the reviews and discussion of audio products here can help inform about which products are more or less along that continuum. But IF you aren't seeking accuracy....the information can still be informative. It's really about simply putting the accurate information out there (rather than woo-woo bullshit) so someone can make informed decisions about gear.

That's my take anyway. (And it only partially covers the discussions that go on here, which are pretty wide-ranging).





This is projecting your own values, which are not necessarily shared precisely by others. Some people seem unable to accept that some audio designers don't share their own precise goal. Speaker manufacturers like Wilson, B+W (not to mention Zu and others) just don't seem to share the same goal of producing speakers designed for perfect neutrality, or other parameters. They are going for engineering a specific "sound."
You may not like that...but it doesn't make sense to simply dismiss a product as "flawed" because it doesn't meet your goals, where it may meet the goals of the designer or some portion of people attracted to the design.

Amirm, for instance, noted subjectively that the Wilson Tune Tot sounded "larger" than the Revel speaker he compared it to (the large scale of sound from the Tune Tot being a common feature remarked upon in reviews), and he also remarked it had a certain appealing vividness and clarity, ultimately saying "Overall, I preferred the TuneTot over Revel." Over a REVEL!

Now it could be that ultimately Amirm would find the uneven performance across a variety of material on the Tune Tot might push him...or someone else here...to ultimately stick with a Revel speaker. On the other hand, someone ELSE may find the scale of sound, sense of detail and vividness etc of the Tune Tot to be overall more satisfying. In which case...any value proposition for buying the Tune Tot is STRICTLY UP TO THAT PERSON and not you to tell anyone "don't pay some company for making a product that actually met their own goals and which actually please some customers."



I've seen similar views expressed about all sorts of gear. One could also say "please don't give your money to a company making a pricey tube amplifier when there are more accurate, more affordable amplifiers made by other hard working people." But, sorry...I really like tube amplifiers and I'm happy to pay for them. Plus...I think it's facile to presume the engineers for these products that you dismiss might not be as "hard working." They may not be working precisely towards your desired goal; that doesn't mean they don't put a lot of hard work in to their products.

This is how I look at it.

It can be both. One and the same person can have the highest quality lossless streamed with top-performing modern DAC AND have:

Nice turntables. Attached picture is an absolute requirement.

Post a picture of a vinyl lathe that you think looks good.:D Performance information, optional. I am most interested in some nice pictures. How vinyl sounds is of secondary importance. For me anyway.:) Feel free to tell us about your youth's vinyl player. Take a trip down memory lane...

audiosciencereview.com

One can very well know about how tubes performs but still say:

I love the simplicity of tube amps like this. There is just so little to them. If I were less busy, I would not mind playing with one to get it to optimal performance.

Review and Measurements of Dynaco ST 70

This is a review and detailed measurements of the vintage Dynakit Dynaco Stereo 70. It is on kind loan from a member who bought it used online and repaired it. Previous owner hand upgraded it but could not get it working. Given that it is 60 years old, one can forgive the rust and dust...

audiosciencereview.com

It's not either or. In many cases it is both. There are many factors to consider.

I am convinced that most people active on this forum know, objectively, what sound quality you can get from, for example, vinyl and or tubes, but are still doing it. Nostalgia (with vinyl), DIY (with tubes, plus sound history with tubes) that may be the explanation. Or it is other factors that determine the choice of Hifi gadgets.

 

[watchnerd]

They're probably also the type to invest in $3000 cables and $10,000 amps; so who am to judge? It's their money.

What about those of us with expensive amps but cheap cables?