Wilson Audio TuneTot Review (high-end bookshelf speaker)

[Purité Audio]

Didn’t Wilson claim that their Sabrina and iterations thereof are the largest selling ‘audiophile’ loudspeaker, says it all really.
Keith

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Just curious out of the 23 pages of responses has anyone had the opportunity to hear any Wilson speaker in a system?

I've heard every version of the Watt/Puppies including the first one that used a "beard" and paired up with Entec Subwoofers. Heard the Maxes, and the scaled down one piece version of the Watt called the Whitt. Everything after version 3 of the Watt had a grotesque cartoonish sound. They just don't sound like neutral sound reproduction any more than triode tube amps sound neutral (not to say the colorations are identical, just rather similarly egregious). Some may like or even love their colorations, which is their prerogative, but not me.

Even though I could stretch my finances to afford at least a used version of something like Watt/Puppies or even brand new Tune Tots, I'd never consider them based on their sonic signatures alone. I think most people on this site who have heard them will agree with me, though there will always be a minority who will not.

And those who say they really love these, I have to ask this: Have you listened to a pair of Kii 3's? D & D 8C's? Kef Reference 1's? GGNTKT M1's? Revel F228be's? Or Genelec 8351's?

If you haven't I would maintain you truly do not know what is possible to attain for the same cost as those Wilson's. You are missing out.

 

[MrHifiTunes]

That is a fair point. Not everyone will prefer harman curve and maybe there’s something unmeasured going on with how the speaker interacts with the room. But of course this forum judges speakers based on harman curve deviation (preference score..) so this looks strange. Also the distortion doesn’t look all that special to me, yet received high praise by amirm.

When I think the end result isnt far from the harman curve.(in room response) Stil dont know how exactly the low frequencies are handled in the in-room graph. In a real room you can have big dips and peaks quiet easily and depending on the room dimensions and positioning of listener and speaker. How you see that in the graphic? Difficult to predict I assume.
I notice some focus on the graphs too much. Here is a good document on how our ears distinguish different sounds.

What is a critical band? - Eomys

Definition of critical band in psychoacoustics, application to electric motors sound quality analysis

eomys.com

I do believe that this speaker interacts in a special way with the room and will not sound right in all kinds of rooms. But I guess that in the right room it can do that little bit more.

 

[MrHifiTunes]

My Wilson dealer, together with a couple of others from the UK, were flown out to Utah for a week to get to know the product better, see how it's made, installation etc. The customer service is excellent. I first bought from that dealer in 1980. We bought the Sabrina speaker. They are a tremendously enjoyable speaker. I'm not that much of a fan of home audio, I'd much rather get in the car and drive for 30 minutes and go to a recital or performance of some sort, which before lockdown was the case 3 or 4 days per week. I bought the Wilson in lockdown and I look forward to listening to music through them. They sound better in a smaller room, listening quite close. They are very undemanding on the amplifier and are fabulous at medium to low volume. They go low enough to make acoustic jazz work well, bass, baritone sax, etc. The treble is sublime.

Yeah lockdown did put things on hold for a long time now. But you have good reference how the real thing sounds like if you go 3-4 times a week to concerts. I'm sure you enjoy these speakers a lot. A 5,5"woofer is what it is. This one gives a lot of base for it size and will give many 6,5"drivers run for their money. Did you change the resistors for the treble? Or use the standard ones?

 

[beagleman]

As someone who has actually bought a pair of Wilson speakers, the last thing that ever crossed my mind is how much it cost to make and sell them.

I suppose some people think brands like Wilson are charging criminal prices and people are stupid to pay them. You could say that about Nike shoes and a million other products. People buy things because they give them pleasure, and I enjoy going shopping with one of my kids buying him Nike shoes.

Not totally sure......

I think some of us are into DIY speakers in this forum. I am for sure, and to me I instantly in my mind, see prices of individual drivers on every speaker I read about or have bought retail.

The average person, and even the Avid hobbyist, can not easily replicate a watch, an Automobile, or pair of tennis shoes......

With that said, many DIY hobbyists will see this speaker, and think few hundred in drivers. A few hundred in crossover, binding posts and a pretty cabinet.

That is why speakers are a bit different than the typical expensive luxury Item, they can be made to easily perform as well, and in some cases, to look as good also.

I know a dozen guys, ( I am not so great at a fancy cabinet I will admit) that can replicate this speaker, WITH better performance, for about 1/10 the price, give or take a few hundred dollars.

 

[DWI]

DWI, Just curious but what are you using for amplification with the Wilsons?

I use a Devialet Expert, it's a very clever thing, takes very little space, has sat in a cupboard for 6 or 7 years, runs at about 35-40c and never fails. It is fine down to 2 ohms, but it has active speaker matching so can be set to adjust for the impedance curve.

I was very recently tempted by the Mola Mola Kula because I like integrated units, it apparently works brilliantly, sounds fantastic and measures even better. I heard the Sasha DAW with a 40w valve amplifier and it was just bliss (and I have no love for valves at all).

 

[MrHifiTunes]

I'd cheekily suggest a 10x markup from factory cost to retail, but in the UK that includes the distributor margin. UK price is £11500 I believe (bigger than ever OUCH!!!). Don't know dealer margin but 40% is ringing in my head from my times past...

I'm not suggesting that Genelec-style true flatness of response is necessary FFS, but surely some attempt at neutrality with these high quality drivers wouldn't be so difficult to achieve? If these things do have three ports with the option of the back one blanked off, that's fine for bass tuning, but the crossover dip isn't cool in anyone's language and not everyone has a highly reflective room (heck, I'm suffering with a 3dBV gentle depression in my boxes, let alone a several dB spiky dip). Mind you, Pro-Ac for years designed in a 'V' response and people loved them!!!!

My choice for this kind of 'damned good box and looks' with non-standard response would be Sonus Faber, the classic models from this maker which could be really nice if set up right, if not state of the art in terms of utter neutrality...

If they flew their customers from UK to Utah for a week, I dont think they have the margin you mention.
Some Pro-Ac's s have W shape. Ref the highly praised Response 1SC's. Also dont measure well but sound great. Actually quiet some resembles with this Wilson TuneTon.

 

[DWI]

Not totally sure......

I think some of us are into DIY speakers in this forum. I am for sure, and to me I instantly in my mind, see prices of individual drivers on every speaker I read about or have bought retail.

The average person, and even the Avid hobbyist, can not easily replicate a watch, an Automobile, or pair of tennis shoes......

With that said, many DIY hobbyists will see this speaker, and think few hundred in drivers. A few hundred in crossover, binding posts and a pretty cabinet.

That is why speakers are a bit different than the typical expensive luxury Item, they can be made to easily perform as well, and in some cases, to look as good also.

I know a dozen guys, ( I am not so great at a fancy cabinet I will admit) that can replicate this speaker, WITH better performance, for about 1/10 the price, give or take a few hundred dollars.

As I can barely wire a plug, and have never considered audio to be a DIY hobby, the component cost is not something I ever consider.

I fully appreciate DIY hobbyists look at consumer products from the completely opposite direction.

 

[Frank Dernie]

The drivers Wilson uses are pretty typical high end quality units, presumably custom spec, from ScanSpeak, Focal and SB Acoustics. They also do some modifications, which adds to cost. Parts cost is not a big part of the cost of these speakers, or indeed any high end speaker.

To give you some perspective, the woofer is something like a 5" SS Revelator, which you can buy for around $200, and the tweeter I have no idea about but is probably a flat faceplate silk scanspeak unit; the most expensive unit is the old D2905/9700 which is again around $200. Presumably they get some kind of discount, call it 20%, and you're looking at around $640 for drivers. Add another $600 for a very complex crossover using esoteric components and you're looking at maybe $1340 in parts.

The costs for Wilson add up due to all the other stuff though; they pot their crossovers in black epoxy, they probably use nice thick PCBs, their ports are custom machined, the terminals are super high end units. Wilson knows how to create the impression of value to audiophiles.

I would expect by a long way the most expensive part of all Wilson speakers is the enclosures given the materials they use and the construction and machining.

 

[restorer-john]

I have a pair of realistic speakers that I think are cast aluminum. The little minumus two ways. Anybody remember Radio Shack?

The Minimus 7 was/is the biggest selling speaker in history.

 

[Steve Dallas]

With their lift at 115Hz the in room response will show a less deep hole in that region. Where you see the -5db dip? In room response in that region is as flat as can be. Don't look at on and off axes individually.

You seem to be missing the experience you need to back this assertion. Room nulls appear at different frequencies depending on dimensions. You cannot "engineer" a 115Hz peak expecting it to fill in a 115Hz null in all rooms. That's just silly.

 

[Frank Dernie]

The Minimus 7 was/is the biggest selling speaker in history.

Really? I've never heard of them.
Where were they sold?

 

[sarumbear]

The Minimus 7 was/is the biggest selling speaker in history.

I still have half a dozen of them spread around in my garden. I leave them outside all year round. I bought them early 90s and they still sound the same. Miracles of engineering from a different era.

 

[DSJR]

If they flew their customers from UK to Utah for a week, I dont think they have the margin you mention.
Some Pro-Ac's s have W shape. Ref the highly praised Response 1SC's. Also dont measure well but sound great. Actually quiet some resembles with this Wilson TuneTon.

I loathed the Response 1sc, as the tingly top really annoyed me - th emore naturally recorded and less processed the music, the worse it sounded I found. Highly praised, by 'deeetail' freaks mistaking spitty highs for 'detail' it sold well I remember. I believe the designer used ARC power amps to 'voice his speakers and if these were valve models, then anything respembling a flat response as used with solid state amps went out the window...

 

[Beershaun]

They have not been on the market for more than two decades. What’s the point?

I was referring to the Tune Tots. The full quote got lost in my reply.

 

[restorer-john]

Really? I've never heard of them.
Where were they sold?

They were sold by Tandy/Radio Shack.

Debuted in 1978 and were sold for 17 years across 9500 stores worldwide (at their peak). Came in various colours over the time. Production went from Japan (foster) to Korea.

Many millions were sold- I don't know how many, but the heads of Tandy/Intertan received gold plated ones as million/s milestones in the early 1980s. We were selling them in 1987 through to the early 90s. I'd always keep at least 20 pairs in stock and when on sale, we'd go through 50 pairs in a month. Multiply that by 9500 stores and you get the idea...

Black aluminium with the metal grille removed:

 

[Steve Dallas]

Just curious out of the 23 pages of responses has anyone had the opportunity to hear any Wilson speaker in a system?

Yes. Many times. I will say they sound very clean and dynamic. They also butcher frequency response to the point of sounding phasey. I have never been able grasp the attraction. My "favorites" are the Sabrinas, perhaps because they are the simple 3 ways, but I would choose the speakers I have over those any day.

 

[restorer-john]

Yes. Many times. I will say they sound very clean and dynamic.

My friend's Wilson Sashas are immediately impressive. Driven by a Gryphon Diablo integrated and carefully positioned in an open room, they are incredibly dynamic and emminently listenable. However I found the high end fatiguing on all content I've heard on them. It could be the room, but I tend to think it is the Wilsons.

They would need the top end taming for me to live with them.

 

[SmackDaddies]

$10 grand and it is only listenable if you EQ it? And it gets recommended? Any speaker that comes in at $10k should be perfect.

Headless panther for sure

 

[MrHifiTunes]

You seem to be missing the experience you need to back this assertion. Room nulls appear at different frequencies depending on dimensions. You cannot "engineer" a 115Hz peak expecting it to fill in a 115Hz null in all rooms. That's just silly.

115 Hz is 85cm from the back wall. Easy to engineer that.

Then how is the in-room low frequency come together? (ref the null Genelec shows in their graphs.)

Don't you do the same when EQ the room? "Engineer" peaks to compensate room nulls. People who dont have access to EQ software dont have to bother, just pay attention to put the speaker in the right place. Maybe not the best solution, but for many the only way. For sure not flexible like software EQ. But better then doing nothing. Putting a Genelec speaker in your room and expect it to sound flat is further from thee truth.