WiiM Mini Streamer

[Tangband]

No USBAPPP doesn't work with Apple Music only Qobuz and Tidal. BubbleUpnp Audio Cast works with Apple Music and provides gapless playback but resolution limited to 44.1/16

With this WiiM, you can use AirPlay from an IPhone and use Apple Music lossless. Its then limited to 16 bit 44,1/48 kHz, and much better than Spotify connect.
Amirms review can ( maybe ) show if there is some bad SRC going on in this unit with AirPlay - ie everything becomes 48 kHz the same way as in Yamaha wxc50 in preamp mode.

 

[Music1969]

I wish it did chromecast

On their support FAQ they said Chromecast needs special hardware which this unit doesn't have but they said they are working on other hardware that will have it.

The Mini is so cheap I'll get it when the Amazon HD update arrives next month.

Then I'll probably get their next thing too with Chromecast!

 

[Jmudrick]

The awful queue management of the WiiM app can be overcome by using Android USBAPP as player (with Tidal, Qobuz, or DLNA source) in concert with Bubbleupnp Audio Cast. No problem adding albums to the queue on the fly which is impossible with the WiiM app in its current state. Gapless playback works here too.

 

[telemike]

I'm really happy with this little puck feeding my Topping E30. Amazon and Spotify have been streaming with no issues. Waiting for the Ultra HD Amazon support. I have not tried Airplay yet. I think IOS downsamples lossless to 256k AAC over Airplay from iphones

 

[Tangband]

I'm really happy with this little puck feeding my Topping E30. Amazon and Spotify have been streaming with no issues. Waiting for the Ultra HD Amazon support. I have not tried Airplay yet. I think IOS downsamples lossless to 256k AAC over Airplay from iphones

No, thats not correct.
AirPlay 1 and 2 are both lossless 44,1 kHz 16 bit.
In the first few months on Apple Music lossless , in the realease summer 2021, there where some music that behaved like 256 AAC when AirPlay was used. Audiophile style wrote about this. Thats NOT the case now. Further, the volume control in digital form is really good in airplay making it much better than all lossy bluetooth protocols.

’’The protocol supports metadata packets that determine the final output volume on the receiving end. This makes it possible to always send audio data unprocessed at its original full volume, preventing sound quality deterioration due to reduction in bit depth and thus sound quality which would otherwise occur if changes in volume were made to the source stream before transmitting.”

AirPlay - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Edit : TIDAL connect and Apple lossless/high resolution sound exactly the same if you have good gear - some variation can sometimes be found that depends entirely on different masterings.

 

[flz]

No, thats not correct.
AirPlay 1 and 2 are both lossless 44,1 kHz 16 bit.
In the first few months on Apple Music lossless , in the realease summer 2021, there where some music that behaved like 256 AAC when AirPlay was used. Audiophile style wrote about this. Thats NOT the case now. Further, the volume control in digital form is really good in airplay making it much better than all lossy bluetooth protocols.

’’The protocol supports metadata packets that determine the final output volume on the receiving end. This makes it possible to always send audio data unprocessed at its original full volume, preventing sound quality deterioration due to reduction in bit depth and thus sound quality which would otherwise occur if changes in volume were made to the source stream before transmitting.”

AirPlay - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You're talking about this article, right? If we're using Apple Music streaming over Airplay 2, we're out of luck as far as lossless is concerned (over iOS, different story for MacOS).

Apple Music Lossless Mess Part 2: AirPlay - Bits and Bytes - Audiophile Style

Edit: if you have updated information about Apple Music streaming lossless over Airplay 2 on iOS or iPad OS, I'd love to see it!

 

[Tangband]

You're talking about this article, right? If we're using Apple Music streaming over Airplay 2, we're out of luck as far as lossless is concerned (over iOS, different story for MacOS).

Apple Music Lossless Mess Part 2: AirPlay - Bits and Bytes - Audiophile Style

Yes and this was true in july 2021 but not now..
With an external dac connected digitaly with lightning connection or USB with a Mac or iPhone/iPad, the maximum soundquality from Apple Music high-resolution is 192 kHz 24 bit. And yes , when I download my favorite highres files on my Mac from Apple music you can see how big those files are, compared to Spotify .

 

[flz]

Yes and this was true in july 2021 but not now..
With a dac connected digitaly with lightning connection or USB with a Mac or iPhone/iPad, the maximum soundquality from Apple Music high-resolution is 192 kHz 24 bit. And yes , when I download my favorite highres files on my Mac from Apple music you can see how big those files are, compared to Spotify .

I think we may have a misunderstanding. You're referring to a wired connection between iPhone/iPad and the DAC, right? I was talking about a wireless connection between the iPhone/iPad & the WiiM using Airplay 2. And then optical Toslink connection between WiiM and your DAC.

If you're saying that Audiophile Style article is already out of date, can you please show us information that the scenario I just described above will give us lossless? There has been massive confusion over this issue which obviously still hasn't been settled.

 

[telemike]

yes, streaming from iPhone to Wiim via Airplay2. Is it lossless or 256k AAC? The world is waiting for evidence

 

[Tangband]

I think we may have a misunderstanding. You're referring to a wired connection between iPhone/iPad and the DAC, right? I was talking about a wireless connection between the iPhone/iPad & the WiiM using Airplay 2. And then optical Toslink connection between WiiM and your DAC.

As you can read in the last page of your linked ”audiophile style” , in june 2021 there was a softwarebug in Apple Music lossless app, that sometimes converted lossless to AAC 256 k if one used the app:s airplay. But, if using airplay 2 globally in the iPhone ( not via the app ) the signal was bitcorrect.

Apple Music Lossless Mess Part 2: AirPlay

The Original and Preeminent Source for Computer Audio, Music Servers, and HiFi Information and Reviews. USB DACs, Best USB DACs, Digital to analog converters, UPnP, DLNA, MQA

audiophilestyle.com

 

[flz]

As you can read in the last page of your linked ”audiophile style” , in june 2021 there was a softwarebug in Apple Music lossless app, that sometimes converted lossless to AAC 256 k if one used the app:s airplay. But, if using airplay 2 globally in the iPhone ( not via the app ) the signal was bitcorrect.

Apple Music Lossless Mess Part 2: AirPlay

The Original and Preeminent Source for Computer Audio, Music Servers, and HiFi Information and Reviews. USB DACs, Best USB DACs, Digital to analog converters, UPnP, DLNA, MQA

audiophilestyle.com

I'm on page 7 (last page) of the comments in that article. I just don't see it! Can you post a screenshot of the relevant quote or something to that effect?

The bit perfect scenarios were talking about MacOS.

 

[telemike]

and if it's the Apple Music app, has the bug been fixed?

 

[flz]

Here is the relevant section from that article. Please NOTE: the results are different depending on if its iOS or MacOS.

 

[Tangband]

I'm on page 7 (last page) of the comments in that article. I just don't see it! Can you post a screenshot of the relevant quote or something to that effect?

The bit perfect scenarios were talking about MacOS.

It seems that they used a very bad streamer ( bluesound node2i ) for AirPlay 2 and the very old second generation of Apple airport from 2012. When using Airplay 1 the Apple AirPort from 2012 was bitcorrect, wich isnt a surprise.
On new good AirPlay 2 equipment there should be no trouble.
Its impossible to make any valid judgement based on this flawed and biased test.

Edit: on newer equipment like a Mac computer using MacOS - the signal was bitcorrect with Apple Music and airplay2 if using global AirPlay 2 ( not inside the app )

 

[Tangband]

Here is the relevant section from that article. Please NOTE: the results are different depending on if its iOS or MacOS.
View attachment 194171

This test is from june 2021 and of no value 2022. New software has come a couple of times since then, both for iOS and Mac.

 

[flz]

This test is from june 2021 and of no value 2022.

In the spirit of ASR which stresses scientific evidence, do you have any updated tests that show the article is now out of date/wrong regarding iOS (NOT MacOS) being able to stream Apple Music Lossless via Airplay 2? Or are you just claiming it to be true? Sorry, I don't mean for this discussion to get heated or tension filled. People like Telemike and myself just want to know the truth. Because its sure been confusing...

 

[Tangband]

I think we may have a misunderstanding. You're referring to a wired connection between iPhone/iPad and the DAC, right? I was talking about a wireless connection between the iPhone/iPad & the WiiM using Airplay 2. And then optical Toslink connection between WiiM and your DAC.

If you're saying that Audiophile Style article is already out of date, can you please show us information that the scenario I just described above will give us lossless? There has been massive confusion over this issue which obviously still hasn't been settled.

Yes there is a lot of confusion . And why ? The whole hifiindustry hate Apple Music because they dont get any advertising or can make any hardware streamers with this streaming format. Its also half the price of TIDAL . Go figure…

 

[Tangband]

In the spirit of ASR which stresses scientific evidence, do you have any updated tests that show the article is now out of date/wrong regarding iOS (NOT MacOS) being able to stream Apple Music Lossless via Airplay 2? Or are you just claiming it to be true? Sorry, I don't mean for this discussion to get heated or tension filled. People like Telemike and myself just want to know the truth. Because its sure been confusing...

This would be very interesting if Amirm could check this out ..
If Im wrong on this, then fine - but we cant be sure right now.

Amirm - can you check if the airplay 2 is bitcorrect when you review the WiiM ?

 

[d3miller]

This would be very interesting if Amirm could check this out ..
If Im wrong on this, then fine - but we cant be sure right now.

Amirm - can you check if the airplay 2 is bitcorrect when you review the WiiM ?

So I've got my Wiim setup for 192 kHz/24-bit resolution. I stream Apple Music via Airplay 2 from my phone (or from a HomePod) to the Wiim, which then does optical out to my Topping D30 Pro. The Topping does display sampling rate. I can share what displays there, but I'm not sure if that would tell us anything.

 

[telemike]

Need to know if the stream is 256k AAC or is it lossless ALAC as it hits the WIIM