Why no inexpensive multi-input digital interface?

[tmtomh]

I assume the answer here is "market reasons," but given the near-endless variety of digital interfaces and DACs out there, I have a hard time believing that.

What I'm talking about is an inexpensive device that is a sort of merger of an SMSL PO100 (or PO100 Pro, doesn't matter in this situation), and an SMSL PS100:

PO100 Pro: https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/808.html
PS100: https://www.smsl-audio.com/portal/product/detail/id/842.html

The PO100 provides digital-to-digital conversion, but has only one input: USB. It costs about $70.

The PS100 provides multiple digital inputs, but has only analogue outputs. It costs about $30.

There is at least one multi-input, multi-output digital switcher out there - https://www.tindie.com/products/beni_skate/automatic-spdif-opticalrca-audio-switch/ - but it doesn't offer USB among its input choices.

It seems to me that given the above, SMSL (or one of many other companies) could easily make a device with multiple digital inputs, including USB, like the PS100, and digital outputs like the PO100 Pro. And they could sell it for $100 or less and still make money, judging by the retail prices of the PO100 Pro and PS100.

They could save even more by making this device a pure digital interface - basically a PO100 Pro but with additional digital inputs and the switching functionality of the PS100, but without the PS100's built-in DAC. (And they could save even a little more money by omitting the HDMI input if they wanted, I suppose.)

In the absence of this as-yet nonexistent product, the only options for a multiple-input digital interface with USB are $500-$2000 devices from MiniDSP, RME, MOTU, and so on, whose features are massive overkill for just digital interface/switching functionality.

It just seems like a strange gap in the market.

Thoughts?

 

[MCH]

I made my own because of exactly the reasons that you mention. It isn't very difficult nor costly, but you need to do your own code, SMD soldering, etc. Not for a first diy project.

 

[dualazmak]

Please note we have similar thread entitled "How many people want a 12-channel or 16-channel DAC? And a 7-channel or 12/16-channel power amplifier?"

I am in the same league searching/waiting simple (and reasonably affordable) 16-Ch DAC or 16-Ch Audio Interface (just ADC plus DAC, no other function needed) with all-in-sync USB ASIO I/O and all balanced XLR as well as AES/EBU digital I/O.

The best and ideal solution at least for my continuing DSP multichannel audio project would be possible "dream" DAC16PRO(?) from OKTO as I wrote here and here, but maybe such demand and market would be too small for profitable business of OKTO company.

Merging Technology's HAPI MkII and its DA option board DA8 (IOM-H-DA8) / DA8P (IOM-H-DA8P) are already available, but much far away from "reasonably affordable" standard.

 

[ppataki]

Please note we have similar thread entitled "How many people want a 12-channel or 16-channel DAC? And a 7-channel or 12/16-channel power amplifier?"

I am in the same league searching/waiting simple (and reasonably affordable) 16-Ch DAC or 16-Ch Audio Interface (just ADC plus DAC, no other function needed) with all-in-sync USB ASIO I/O and all balanced XLR as well as AES/EBU digital I/O.

The best and ideal solution at least for my continuing DSP multichannel audio project would be possible "dream" DAC16PRO(?) from OKTO as I wrote here and here, but maybe such demand and market would be too small for profitable business of OKTO company.

Merging Technology's HAPI MkII and its DA option board DA8 (IOM-H-DA8) / DA8P (IOM-H-DA8P) are already available, but much far away from "reasonably affordable" standard.

Wouldn't this work for you?

MOTU 24 AO

USB 2.0 Audio Interface, AD Converter and Standalone Mixer 72 Channels, Supported sample rate: 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192 kHz, 32-bit floating point format, 24 Line outputs 3 x SUB D-25 and 6 x 12-pin phoenix, 3 x ADAT in/out, Wordclock in/out,...

www.thomann.de

USB input to 24 analog output channels

 

[onlyoneme]

Thoughts?

It's something I do not understand either. As a result of absence of multiport digital only interface I have the mentioned switch, PO100 Pro and S2 Digi to cover different usage scenarios.

 

[TonyJZX]

i would feel that $2,000 usd or 2,000 euro is not classed as inexpensive

i do get where OP is coming from

the market is there for a digital preamp w/ remote and lots of usb hdmi i2s and coax optical and maybe even aes/ebu inputs, maybe digital loops for 'recording'

to my thinking this is even easier than an analog preamp given since its all in the digital domain it should be like a network switch?

it should be effectively transparent? single board design?

i'm thinking OP does not want any processing, just simple digital switching with good dacs (which isnt a hard ask in 2023)

maybe the market does not have that many digital devices?

 

[Rednaxela]

There is at least one multi-input, multi-output digital switcher out there - https://www.tindie.com/products/beni_skate/automatic-spdif-opticalrca-audio-switch/ - but it doesn't offer USB among its input choices.

Behringer SRC2496 would be another one.

 

[onlyoneme]

Behringer SRC2496 would be another one.

Still no usb, and limited to 96 kHz.

 

[TonyJZX]

its also a decade old and discontinued according to some places

also does OP want a 'pro' or 'domestic' unit

 

[popej]

You would like to extract a digital switch from a DAC with multiple inputs?
This is similar to splitting CD into a drive and a DAC. It is possible but there is no obvious dividing line. Clock circuit has to be duplicated an arise new problem of synchronizing 2 clocks, manifesting as jitter.

 

[onlyoneme]

It's an issue for spdif-in usb-out to the DAC scenario, some sort of reclocking would be required. No issue when usb-out to PC for example.

 

[dualazmak]

Wouldn't this work for you?

MOTU 24 AO

USB 2.0 Audio Interface, AD Converter and Standalone Mixer 72 Channels, Supported sample rate: 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96, 176.4, 192 kHz, 32-bit floating point format, 24 Line outputs 3 x SUB D-25 and 6 x 12-pin phoenix, 3 x ADAT in/out, Wordclock in/out,...

www.thomann.de

USB input to 24 analog output channels

Yes!
MOTU 24AO, MOTU 16A, ANTELOPE Orion Studio Synergy Core (OSSC), Merging Technology HAPI II with 16-Ch DAC boards, etc. are within my candidate list.

We have been, we are, discussing these on the similar thread entitled "How many people want a 12-channel or 16-channel DAC? And a 7-channel or 12/16-channel power amplifier?". If needed, I would like to continue our communication, therefore, on that thread.

Nevertheless,,, here let me briefly share my present feelings.

My current a little bit of negative "personal" concern on these MOTU and ANTELOPE multichannel Audio Interfaces would be that they are mainly designed for intensive AVB/DAW audio mic-recording/mixing/editing professional work in studio (and/or on stage), and therefore the manufacturers' cost/efforts on multichannel (HiFi?) DAC portion of the gears would be less than 20 %, I assume.

I recently had chances to physically "open" and observe inside of MOTU 16A and ANTELOPE OSSC, and found they put much efforts on mic-recording ADC portions as well as on AVB/DAW hardware/software features; even though the DAC portions have fairly nice catalog specs (and acceptable DAC chips of course fully in sync), I personally feel the multichannel DAC functionalities would be mainly designed for "just" convenient monitoring purposes during the intensive professional AVB/DAW workflow. I also feel/assume about 60% (or more?) of the price of the gears would cover the DAW software development and maintenance (and subscription).

Merging Technology HAPI II with 16-Ch DAC boards would be (may be) the best fit for my present demands for HiFi multichannel DAC (in terms of identical or better total sound quality of my OKTO DAC8PRO), but it is far beyond my planned budget in my audio project.

 

[mdsimon2]

Just curious, what are your sources and how would you use such a device? I’ve used many of the miniDSP digital I/O devices in the past (nanodigi, OpenDRC-DI, SHD Studio) but have gotten away from them as I’ve been able to simplify my system.

Michael

 

[dualazmak]

Just curious, what are your sources and how would you use such a device?

Is your question for OP, or for me?

If for me, my answer is here; as you have already kindly read that post (and assume you know my latest system well), I just would like to expand my multichannel configuration (in future) using in-sync 16-Ch capable single multichannel DAC unit which would replace my present DAC8PRO.

 

[mdsimon2]

Is your question for OP, or for me?

If for me, my answer is here; as you have already kindly read that post (and assume you know my latest system well), I just would like to expand my multichannel configuration (in future) using in-sync 16-Ch capable single multichannel DAC unit which would replace my present DAC8PRO.

OP.

As far as I can tell what you are talking about is very different than what the OP is talking about.

Michael

 

[dualazmak]

As far as I can tell what you are talking about is very different than what the OP is talking about.

Thanks, I am sorry and apologize for that. If so, I may better to retire from this thread right now, thank you again.

 

[thecheapseats]

...It just seems like a strange gap in the market....

a gap - yes... Benchmark put both analog and digital input(s) switching function into their standalone dacs - at a price of course... I always appreciated that feature... there are a few featureless digital switching devices out there - but I have no experience with them...

 

[sweetsounds]

In the absence of this as-yet nonexistent product, the only options for a multiple-input digital interface with USB are $500-$2000 devices from MiniDSP, RME, MOTU, and so on, whose features are massive overkill for just digi

It just seems like a strange gap in the market.

The only I know is mutec, but not cheap. Also available for clock synch:

MUTEC – Digital Audio Equipment – High End | Professional Audio - MC3+ USB

MUTEC Germany - Manufacturer of Digital Audio and Video Studio Equipment

www.mutec-net.com

And there is the Manunta HiFace Evo 2

But indeed there is not a lot.

 

[Keith_W]

I agree. I have been looking for a "digital preamp" / digital source switcher for a while. It needs to accept multiple digital inputs including HDMI. Alas, no such thing exists. I can cobble together something that will do the job, but it requires multiple hardware purchases and more complexity.

 

[tmtomh]

Just curious, what are your sources and how would you use such a device? I’ve used many of the miniDSP digital I/O devices in the past (nanodigi, OpenDRC-DI, SHD Studio) but have gotten away from them as I’ve been able to simplify my system.

Michael

My sources are very simple: computer music server, and CD/disc transport. For the output I'd love AES EBU, but I'm fine with coax SPDIF instead since my run is only a few feet and I've experienced no problems with my current setup, which goes SPDIF-to-AES.

The only I know is mutec, but not cheap. Also available for clock synch:

MUTEC – Digital Audio Equipment – High End | Professional Audio - MC3+ USB

MUTEC Germany - Manufacturer of Digital Audio and Video Studio Equipment

www.mutec-net.com

And there is the Manunta HiFace Evo 2

But indeed there is not a lot.

Thanks! To be clear, I would be totally willing to pay a good deal more money if it seemed like that were just what these things have to cost. But given that seemingly perfectly functional digital to digital converters with USB (like the PO100 Pro) exist for less than $100, and a perfectly functional digital switch with USB input is available - with a DAC thrown in - for less than $30 (PS100), it seems like $1500 is not anywhere close to the "necessary" price for a functional device that gives you something simple like USB, SPDIF, and TOSLINK inputs, and SPDIF and TOSLINK outputs. It seems clear that technologically, engineering-wise, and economically, such a device could be brought to market at a price point of less than $100. And I'd be happy to pay, say, $200 or possibly $250 if it were viewed as a low-volume seller where SMSL or whomever felt they needed to get more profit per unit in order to recoup their fixed costs.

And per the Beni Skate digital switcher linked above (and which I own), if he were willing and able to add a USB input to that unit, and he charged an extra $50-$75 for that version, I'd be thrilled. That device is IMHO super-nice because it doesn't even need a remote: the device is programmed to prioritize the inputs, and it simply enables whatever the highest-priority input is that's receiving a signal at the moment.

Finally, for me, an even more ideal component is the Schiit URD, because it has AES output, and while it has only USB input, it has a built-in CD player so I wouldn't need a 2nd digital input. However, price is again a problem: I might be willing to pay, say, $600 for the convenience of the one-box solution and the minor benefit of AES output. But Not $1300. Plus that unit is a solution only for my specific use case, where I have only two digital sources and one of them happens to be a CD player.

It just seems like clocking is a solved problem given the availability of $100 digital-to-digital converters. And it seems like input-switching is a solved problem given the availability of a $30 switcher and of an auto-switching device like the Beni Skate unit. So it would seem trivial for any vendor who already makes such units to combine the two functions in one inexpensive box.