Why is Lumin so expensive?

[direstraitsfan98]

I didn’t see anybody mention this yet, but Lumin is manufactured and assembled in China. You’d think that with (extreme) reduced labour costings, they could pass along some savings to the end user, but nope. I'd even go as far as to say that maybe they have to charge so much because of their main location in Hong Kong, the one that does the software side of things. I just checked and I was surprised to say that Lumin is a subsidiary of Pixel Magic systems, and they pay ZERO rent!!! Located in the "science park" building /complex right beside the river front... very expensive real estate.

Maybe they do pay rent, but being they are a subsidiary so it seems likely that their parent company is the one footing the rent bill.

 

[symphara]

That is not a serious answer. Perhaps I'm perceiving your reply through the lens of my post only. Could you recommend 2 products that perform as well or better than my D2 for less money? Quality does matter, it can be expensive ever complying with law of diminishing returns. I get the retail hype, I get the hi end magazine hype. I come to this site for hard testing data and legitimate information from actual users with real experience with the products directly or perhaps intelligent thoughtful enthusiasm for the hobby with experience with analogous products or perhaps seasoned professionals in the business writ large. Am I expecting too much?
My experience here has been, however, those qualifications rarely apply here, present company exclude of course. The vibe here seems to be a lot of negative conjecture with a tendency toward bloviation with a decided lack of impulse control. Further there also seems to be a constant pattern of low grade trolling

Teac NT-505. It’s very similar to the Lumin D2 (you can even control it from the Lumin app). It’s got an AK4497 vs the D2’s WM8741. The AK chip is better specced and costs $57 vs the WM which is $21. It supports up to DSD512, vs Lumin’s DSD128. It has a slightly smaller display compared to the Lumin and it doesn’t show the artist and track title, but the Lumin display is very small anyway and unless you sit right in front of it it’s not readable from the listening position.

The NT-505 is about half the price of the Lumin D2, where I live. I doubt you could tell the difference, I heard them both myself.

 

[FrantzM]

Any parameter. My best example would be a complete lack of glare or harshness in the presentation. An amazing ability to deliver the very subtle the micro dynamics buried in the hi resolution files in my library. A case in point would be the perception of the shimmer of sounds coming from the hall boundaries where the music was recorded. Again these are perceptions rather than hard measurements. See my previous post referring to the av processor, Marantz AV 8802A and AV 7705 with dnla streaming from Serviio music server, or UDP players OPPO UDP 203 and OPPO UDP 205 analogue out or HDMI for both. direct dnla and as ROON endpoints though the Marantz processors.
The D2 took my system to a new level altogether. I reached the conclusion with a direct comparison to the DACs listed. Please consider D2 analogue out through either of the Marantz pre/procs was devoid of glare compared to the Marantzs themselves. The same was true for the OPPOs' presentation through the same Marantzs compare to the D2
That lack of glare would be a great measure of a DAC's quality. Two DACs using the same chip with different board designs could vary wildly in this.

You Dear Madam or Sir or They, are, a Troll.

 

[voodooless]

D2’s WM8741

Wait a minute.. I thought we were talking about it’s more expensive brother (with the ESS chips) .. in that case we can already say that a LOT of DAC’swill be objectively better. That thing would only get about a 100 SINAD. We can do 15 to 20dB better for a lot less.

 

[symphara]

Wait a minute.. I thought we were talking about it’s more expensive brother (with the ESS chips) .. in that case we can already say that a LOT of DAC will be objectively better. That thing would only get about a 100 SINAD. We can do 15 to 20dB better for a lot less.

You are correct, the thread started with the T2, but the person I replied to specifically mentioned the D2.

 

[murraycamp]

I would call that an absence of hype, I would look to reviews from credible sources out in the wild.

So a lack of measurements = absence of hype? Yikes.

 

[Frank Dernie]

say that a LOT of DAC’swill be objectively better

but not subjectively
100dB is more than any music recording I have ever heard of so the undoubted objective betterness won't lead to any subjective difference whatsoever

 

[watchnerd]

Is there any good objective reason why Lumin is that expensive? When looking at inside the box (e.g. In T2), the box seems mostly empty (ess 9028). I am curious about what our technical experts think about these products.

This framing is flawed.

Market demand forces drive prices of Veblen goods.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

So what does this do better than a Chromecast audio as Roon endpoint to the Toslink of just about any SMSL, Schiit, or Topping DAC.

 

[watchnerd]

So what does this do better than a Chromecast audio as Roon endpoint to the Toslink of just about any SMSL, Schiit, or Topping DAC.

Costs more.

 

[Massimo]

Why single out one company? Axe to grind? The same can be asked of a multitude of other brands. Kii Three and Dutch & Dutch 8C speakers, for example, cost as much as a small car yet the drivers in these speakers sell for around $25 a piece. And the electronics, perhaps, a few hundred dollars.

 

[symphara]

Costs more.

I have two Chromecast Audio dongles and plenty of experience with them. They’re an accurate and an incredibly easy way of adding streaming capabilities to anything with an optical input.

However, leaving Roon aside (which I don’t have), what really annoys me about the Chromecast audio, when used in the Qobuz app for example (Tidal is the same), is the constant disconnection of the control plane. The thing keeps streaming but you cannot control it from the app anymore until you reconnect. The disconnection happens basically every track. This is my experience with the iOS apps.

Another thing is that it can’t do MQA, for whatever that’s worth. And clearly, no DSD either.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I have two Chromecast Audio dongles and plenty of experience with them. They’re an accurate and an incredibly easy way of adding streaming capabilities to anything with an optical input.

However, leaving Roon aside (which I don’t have), what really annoys me about the Chromecast audio, when used in the Qobuz app for example (Tidal is the same), is the constant disconnection of the control plane. The thing keeps streaming but you cannot control it from the app anymore until you reconnect. The disconnection happens basically every track. This is my experience with the iOS apps.

Another thing is that it can’t do MQA, for whatever that’s worth. And clearly, no DSD either.

Just connect Chromecast Audio to a miniDSP SHD for more DSP and Dirac for 1/3 the price of the Lumin. BTW, does the Lumin have Dirac?

 

[voodooless]

Just connect Chromecast Audio to a miniDSP SHD for more DSP and Dirac for 1/3 the price of the Lumin. BTW, does the Lumin have Dirac?

What do you need the CCA for? The SHD is a streamer already

btw, those CCA issues that @symphara mentioned are definitely due to the apps, not the CCA. Tidal and Qobuz apps are quite horrible in this regard. Spotify does not seem to have these issues.

 

[murraycamp]

Just connect Chromecast Audio to a miniDSP SHD for more DSP and Dirac

This is my set up and I have been happy with it.

 

[BDWoody]

What do you need the CCA for? The SHD is a streamer already

btw, those CCA issues that @symphara mentioned are definitely due to the apps, not the CCA. Tidal and Qobuz apps are quite horrible in this regard. Spotify does not seem to have these issues.

To sync with other CCA's would be a big one for me.

 

[Jimbob54]

Seems to me we could do with @amirm doing a streamer/ DAC shoot out. So, something like a Pi hitched up to a well performing but cheap balanced DAC (The new Topping D30 pro? A Modius?) , a mid range streamer/ DAC (lets say the Cambridge CXN- I volunteer to send mine from UK if someone helps with shipping) and a Lumin and/ or other higher end $2k product.

My money is on them all performing electronically well beyond audible thresholds and it coming down to software/ features etc. Given that he will probably use Roon anyway, I doubt any of that would get a decent test.

 

[symphara]

What do you need the CCA for? The SHD is a streamer already

btw, those CCA issues that @symphara mentioned are definitely due to the apps, not the CCA. Tidal and Qobuz apps are quite horrible in this regard. Spotify does not seem to have these issues.

Actually I don’t think it’s the apps but the Google Cast library. In any case, it‘s a serious bug that prevents the proper use of Chromecast audio with Tidal/Qobuz, at least on iOS.

 

[symphara]

To sync with other CCA's would be a big one for me.

It’s a discontinued product, Google “memory holes” them. I doubt it will ever happen. I have a very, very close family member who works for them.

 

[voodooless]

Actually I don’t think it’s the apps but the Google Cast library. In any case, it‘s a serious bug that prevents the proper use of Chromecast audio with Tidal/Qobuz, at least on iOS.

Never had issues with Spotify. It was wat primarily prevented me from getting a Qobuz subscription for a while. Now with other streamer options it’s usable, yet Spotify still has by far the best user experience in this regard.