Is there any budget DAC for DSD1024?

[Rednaxela]

I had posted a different reply that you may or may not have read. Either way - thought it was too snarky so I deleted it. Second attempt…

I did try upsampling the same 44.1 PCM file to both 768k and DSD256 for comparison. Based on my own hearing, 768k sounds a bit harsh when compared to DSD256.

For me, I mainly use my headphone for comparison (as I think I can hear the difference more clearly). I can put on my headphone and listening to the the same album over and over again with DSD256 upsampling for more than 12 hours but I cannot do the same with 768k. I did feel fatigue with 768k around an hour or two. IMO, this experience do tell me something.

Of course.

What I hope though is that it told you foremost that you have an awful lot of investigation work ahead of you to rule out the possibility that your observation was caused by one or more factors other than the upsampling difference.

 

[Brian Hall]

It is good that it shows mesaurable difference.

All these measurable differences actually do puzzle me. A lot of recent DACs have meaurable difference better than -100 db but they do sound quite different. I think the most important thing here is that we don't have a good way (i.e. scientific measurements) to really compare the final music other than our own subjective hearing.

You are imagining that they sound different. Placebo effect. Subjective hearing is not reliable if you know what you are listening to.

 

[voodooless]

I think the most important thing here is that we don't have a good way (i.e. scientific measurements) to really compare the final music other than our own subjective hearing.

We have perfectly fine ways to compare music files, just ask @pkane. And subjective hearing is neither a good, nor a scientific way. It it utterly unreliable and should not be used for these comparisons.

 

[Sokel]

All the extremes sell.Either a format,a sky-rocket SINAD DAC,even class D amp manufacturers advertise ranges up to 100Khz as silicon goes better.
Why would extreme rates would be any different?

Good thing about DSD is usually their different masters or multichannel stuff for those who want this thing.
On the other hand,upsampling,etc comes for free unless someone convinces you that his upsampler is better.
The later was selling when DSD512 was difficult but these days is a child's play.

So...

 

[Keith_W]

It is good that it shows mesaurable difference.

All these measurable differences actually do puzzle me. A lot of recent DACs have meaurable difference better than -100 db but they do sound quite different. I think the most important thing here is that we don't have a good way (i.e. scientific measurements) to really compare the final music other than our own subjective hearing.

I don't think they sound different at all. To me they all sound the same. And I don't own a "budget" DAC either, I am currently using a Merging NADAC and a RME Fireface UC. You can check the prices on those. I bought these DAC's when my beliefs about DAC's were more similar to yours.

With DAC's, the current suite of measurements is good enough to tell us that DAC's that meet a certain threshold of performance will all sound the same.

 

[sunjam]

All the extremes sell.Either a format,a sky-rocket SINAD DAC,even class D amp manufacturers advertise ranges up to 100Khz as silicon goes better.
Why would extreme rates would be any different?

Good thing about DSD is usually their different masters or multichannel stuff for those who want this thing.
On the other hand,upsampling,etc comes for free unless someone convinces you that his upsampler is better.
The later was selling when DSD512 was difficult but these days is a child's play.

So...

There are quite a few real-time upsampling software for us to use. Some are free (e.g. Foobar), some may costs you a bit (e.g. Roon, Audirvāna, HQPlayer).

Nowadays, you don't really need to pay (i.e. buy another version of the album) to have someone to do the upsampling for you. NativeDSD.com already mentioned that they are using HQPlayer to do the upsampling (The Higher Rates Program - NativeDSD Music)... why pay them while you can do it for yourself.

 

[sunjam]

In a sense, I do understand what you mean RE: how DSD is being sold as a step up from PCM... and it could be misleading at times.

Case in point. https://www.dianapanton.com/releases-new.html
Diana Panton - one of my favorite Canadian Jazz singer initially release a 24/44 PCM version of her "Blue" album in December 2022. I bought the online version immediately, only to find that her vocal was really bright and harsh (almost sounded like digital clipping to me) in this album, very untypical of her past usual recordings with her angelic vocal...

6 months later, she released a "2xHD DSD128 remaster" of the album, the version was cleaned up and refined so much all the brightness and harshness was gone and her signature angelic vocal was back.

Obviously people could be misled thinking DSD as a format was superior when it really had to do with her initial PCM release being junks and they have done some major clean up in the DSD release...

And it goes without saying they did charge more for the DSD128 release...

If she had done it right in her first PCM release, there need not be a DSD release 6 months after that... and I wouldn't have to spend $40 to buy both releases

Given you have HQPlayer, just wondering did you try to upsample your PCM version to DSD256 or 512 to see if it sounds better?

 

[bungle]

With DAC's, the current suite of measurements is good enough to tell us that DAC's that meet a certain threshold of performance will all sound the same.

Take for example Genelec 8351B. It receives quite nice reviews. Its DAC (AKM AK4621EF) is nothing to write home about, and it does ADC on analog in and internal processing is 96kHz/24bit PCM (AFAIK). I guess that speaker is totally useless with upsampling DSD audiophiles.

 

[BDWoody]

All these measurable differences actually do puzzle me. A lot of recent DACs have meaurable difference better than -100 db but they do sound quite different.

And the claims with no evidence continue.

So much is just asserted with nothing but anecdotal support throughout this thread that it's hard to know what to do with it

We aren't really a 'try it because it's free' kind of place.

How about if those who are challenging 'us' to look for what's missing, provide actual evidence something IS missing.

Thread closed.