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Which speaker would you like to be reviewed? (community interest thread)

test1223

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That is not correct. Beaming/lobing are created when two spatially separated sound sources emit the same frequency, which cause interference patterns depending on the angle and related path differences related to the wavelengths (interference patterns).
Beaming is also caused by larger surfaces emitting a sound. Which is the case with a 7" and about 3.5kHz crossover which might be the sweet spot of this specific box.
Thus at an infinite steep slope there would be no such lobing, so similar to a coincident driver.
On the way to infinit steep you got more and more phase shift with a crossover, which leads to more nulls. The crossover region is at a smaller frequency range which is a plus.
Also you cannot assume a higher crossover frequency when we are talking about the influence of crossover steepness on the horizontal and vertical steepness.
Yes I can, because you also have to look at the properties of the drivers. There are two effects which will help that the theoretical result that you linked aren't accurate for a real speaker. 1. beaming of the woofer in the higher frequencies 2. the raw driver drop off of the tweeter and the woofer.
But even in this case the reality usually shows significantly more problems at loudspeakers with shallower crossover slopes, just exemplary, a 5" B&W

SPL%20Vertical%20Normalized.jpg

vs a 5" Revel

SPL%20Vertical%20Normalized.jpg

There a pros an cons here the revel performs worse if you have a look at the total energy, since is heavily focused at 3kHz while with the B&W it all evens out. If you optimize the whole system Not only the coverage of the good looking vertical beam is important also the angles where the floor and ceiling reflection is happening are important. All in all it is not fair to say the B&W performs worse. The strength of both speakers isn't the vertical performance, as it isn't with almost any usual speaker.
 

thewas

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Beaming is also caused by larger surfaces emitting a sound. Which is the case with a 7" and about 3.5kHz crossover which might be the sweet spot of this specific box.
That has nothing to do with the here discussed issue.

On the way to infinit steep you got more and more phase shift with a crossover, which leads to more nulls. The crossover region is at a smaller frequency range which is a plus.
Not necessarily, as either with FIR filtering or by choosing the order, polarities and crossover frequencies a loudspeaker designer varies them to be multiples of pi.

Yes I can, because you also have to look at the properties of the drivers. There are two effects which will help that the theoretical result that you linked aren't accurate for a real speaker. 1. beaming of the woofer in the higher frequencies 2. the raw driver drop off of the tweeter and the woofer.
When someone discusses the influence of crossover slope to the vertical directivity then he can only change that parameter, changing the crossover frequency is a different topic and as said the linked simulation takes into consideration the beaming of the driver and if you look at real measurements of loudspeakers, those with lower total slopes have larger problems vertically.

There a pros an cons here the revel performs worse if you have a look at the total energy, since is heavily focused at 3kHz while with the B&W it all evens out. If you optimize the whole system Not only the coverage of the good looking vertical beam is important also the angles where the floor and ceiling reflection is happening are important. All in all it is not fair to say the B&W performs worse. The strength of both speakers isn't the vertical performance, as it isn't with almost any usual speaker.
Lets have a look at floor and ceiling reflections of both:

1651753599529.png


1651753643525.png


Plots tell more than words, not to start talking about preference scores etc.
 

Martin

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This also brings up that this is a bad webpage. There's a dead link to their main page.

I can forgive the web site. The company, Fritz Speakers, is one guy that's been hand building speakers for 40+ years. Every single speaker he makes, he makes. They sounded very good to me. I'd love to see them measured.

Martin
 

ENG

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What about Monitor Audio towers in silver and gold series from UK. (They are build in China).
Also Arendal (Norway) more expensive towers. (They are also build in China).
 

hardisj

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I'm kind of surprised this thread is still going. I've kind of been doing my own thing and - given the rate of requests in the past day alone - fear this thread has turned solely into a "wish list" rather than what will make it to reality. I've currently got about 15 speakers on hand and none of them are the ones in this thread, I don't believe.
 

test1223

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That has nothing to do with the here discussed issue.
The beaming of a woofer in higher frequencies is essential to determine the angles at which there is still enough spl from the woofer that a significant interference with the sound from the tweeter can happen.

Not necessarily, as either with FIR filtering or by choosing the order, polarities and crossover frequencies a loudspeaker designer varies them to be multiples of pi.
Yes with digital active speakers or deeper crossover frequencies but this isn't the case here.

When someone discusses the influence of crossover slope to the vertical directivity then he can only change that parameter, changing the crossover frequency is a different topic and as said the linked simulation takes into consideration the beaming of the driver and if you look at real measurements of loudspeakers, those with lower total slopes have larger problems vertically.
The box which is discussed here and the simulation you linked are different. 2kHz isn't a good crossover frequency for the discussed speaker. The higher crossover frequency as well as the actual beam and drop of of the woofer and tweeter does significantly influence the result.

The real measurements you showed are with a 5" which beams less in the higher frequencies and most likely will have a later drop of to higher frequencies. Both contribute to a less ideal behavior with a 1. order crossover as it is possible with a 7". Nevertheless it is interesting to compare even if you cherry picked the examples with the well and conventional engineered Revel and the unconventionally engineered B&W.
Lets have a look at floor and ceiling reflections of both:
It is really hard to distinguish the colors and hard to evaluate the B&W without a normalization to the preferred on axis frequency response since they like to color all their speakers a lot. I assume it is really good with a hard floor and a ceiling acoustic element, but I am not sure here without looking deeper into it.
The Revel is really nicely engineered since the floor and ceiling bounce mismatches cancel out pretty good. So an equally treated ceiling and floor is the way to go.
 

sarumbear

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Keep in mind that I am limited in size. Currently, I'd say the max height would be 36-inches.

I am working to determine if I can expand that through other means. But most likely I would have to purchase the Z-axis extension to test anything larger than a typical bookshelf or smaller sized floorstanding speaker. The Z-axis extension appears to be about 1100 Euro (plus whatever shipping/customs charges there are).

Again, I am working to see if I can remedy this but for now, just keep this in mind.
This is a big limitation.
 
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JustJones

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The Mesanovic RTM10 would be interesting as it tops Sweetchaos preference list of Active Speakers from $7900 to $15,000 where it's second to the Kii3.
 

hardisj

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This is a big limitation.

Max is 52 inches. I hit that with a speaker recently that was 55 inches tall.

Anyway, I'm gonna ask a mod to close this down because it's ran off the rails and gotten so far ahead of me that there is no way I will ever be able to test all these speakers. This has turned into a wish list I cannot accommodate. ;)

@AdamG247 can you close this thread for me?

If anyone here has a speaker they have purchased or are willing to purchase and send to me you are welcome to PM me. That's how I've tested the last 10 or so speakers thus far.

- Erin
 
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thewas

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The beaming of a woofer in higher frequencies is essential to determine the angles at which there is still enough spl from the woofer that a significant interference with the sound from the tweeter can happen.
As said this is a different issue, when examining the influence of one factor all others must remain constant.

The real measurements you showed are with a 5" which beams less in the higher frequencies and most likely will have a later drop of to higher frequencies. Both contribute to a less ideal behavior with a 1. order crossover as it is possible with a 7". Nevertheless it is interesting to compare even if you cherry picked the examples with the well and conventional engineered Revel and the unconventionally engineered B&W.
If you feel that my example is cherry picked, please post some that show the opposite, I showed both simulations and real life examples.

It is really hard to distinguish the colors and hard to evaluate the B&W without a normalization to the preferred on axis frequency response since they like to color all their speakers a lot.
That's why on the post before that I had posted the normalised vertical FR curves.
 

amirm

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@AdamG247 can you close this thread for me?
No need. I renamed the thread and took your name out. I am reviewing it (as with the other thread aimed at me) to gauge member interest in speakers. Frequently I get asked to test a speaker I have not heard of. But when I find it in these threads, I agree to test them.
 

changer

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Maybe Amir you want to ask Genelec to send you the S360A for review sometime? On gearspace, some people who subjectively compared KH 420, 708P and S360A said, S360A left the JBL behind by a big margin. So this could be one of the best modern two-way speakers build around waveguide + compression driver that is available, agreeably with lower DI below 1k than i. e. JBL 4367, yet at only half the price.
 
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