What's the point of floorstanding when we have subwoofers?

[Duke]

The majority of floorstanding loudspeakers will still need an additional sub/s if you want really full-range.

If we start with that assumption ("subs are needed if we want really fullrange"), then the additional enclosure size of a floorstanding format can be applied towards improved performance in the rest of the spectrum. The net result would arguably avoid the inefficiency of having the main speakers duplicate some (if not most) of what the subs are going to be doing anyway. Offhand I don't think this is something very many manufacturers do, but this weekend a manufacturer I did some work for will be showing big main speakers designed from the outset with the assumption that subs would be used.

 

[thunderchicken]

If we start with that assumption ("subs are needed if we want really fullrange"), then the additional enclosure size of a floorstanding format can be applied towards improved performance in the rest of the spectrum. The net result would arguably avoid the inefficiency of having the main speakers duplicate some (if not most) of what the subs are going to be doing anyway. Offhand I don't think this is something very many manufacturers do, but this weekend a manufacturer I did some work for will be showing big main speakers designed from the outset with the assumption that subs would be used.

Now we’re just back to Bose sat/sub only with bigger satellites. A full-range speaker shouldn’t be a huge ask, like a tower with active bass or a monkey coffin 3 or 4 way with a 15” for the lower register. I feel like this should have been solved a long time ago.

 

[Oddball]

Now we’re just back to Bose sat/sub only with bigger satellites. A full-range speaker shouldn’t be a huge ask, like a tower with active bass or a monkey coffin 3 or 4 way with a 15” for the lower register. I feel like this should have been solved a long time ago.

Interesting point - but how did that actually get resolved a long time ago?

 

[VMAT4]

Because a subwoofer is very difficult to integrate without tools, dsp and measurements and it is extremely easy to make everything worse instead of better.
Also if you noticed two bookshelf speakers with stands have a footprint equal to two towers, so better the towers, they can play louder, with less distortion and are often much more beautiful aesthetically and easier to make the wife accept than a huge black cube in the middle of the boxes.

Not to mention bookshelf speakers on stands are often top heavy. Add to that the hinge point between the speakers and the stands and one has an unstable situation. It's easily knocked over or toppled with disastrous results.

 

[Mort]

Not to mention bookshelf speakers on stands are often top heavy. Add to that the hinge point between the speakers and the stands and one has an unstable situation. It's easily knocked over or toppled with disastrous results.

Not trying to be argumentative here, but this is a stretch. Plenty of people manage to keep bookshelf speakers on stands without 'disastrous results'.

 

[Mart68]

Not trying to be argumentative here, but this is a stretch. Plenty of people manage to keep bookshelf speakers on stands without 'disastrous results'.

People worry about young children pulling them over or bashing into them.

 

[Waxx]

floorstanders with a grille are the safest for children. Standount can also when they are screwed or in another way fixed to the stand, that needs to be more than a pole that can be thrown over, but then your're back at the size of a floorstander. Or do like my parents, hang them on the wall if the speaker is fit for it off course. They had original Warfedale Linton 3XP's that were suited (no port on the back, relative shallow depth).

 

[EJ3]

I'll jump in and say they exist because of tradition and options. 50 years ago subs were not normal, so if you wanted full frequency range and realistic volume you went with floor standing speakers. Floor standers have higher internal volume, so they could produce more sound when amplifier power was far more limited than it is now.

In the end you live in a great audio commercial environment - you get to choose whatever speakers work in your space and make you happy.

I know no one that owns floor standing speakers and only one person other than myself (I have 2) that has even one sub.
So, still not very common (at least not around Charleston, SC USA).

 

[levimax]

I know no one that owns floor standing speakers and only one person other than myself (I have 2) that has even one sub.
So, still not very common (at least not around Charleston, SC USA).

I wonder how popular "Hi-Fi" is these days. Sometimes it seems to be a very small market but I just ordered a DIY sub kit from GSG (They mostly sell large 15" 18" and 21" subs in huge enclosures ) and they have 700 units on back order and are working 7 days per week to try to catch up but are many weeks behind. It seem like Home Theater is where most of the "Hi-Fi" action is these days.

 

[Oddball]

I know no one that owns floor standing speakers and only one person other than myself (I have 2) that has even one sub.
So, still not very common (at least not around Charleston, SC USA).

No pun intended but that is a bit surprising with all the stories about the US man-caves and the goodies in there.

I split my time between mid Europe and Middle East and over years I have heard systems that have so many towers and subs of different kinds that makes you wonder where the limits are. Recently I heard a Trinnov wave-forming setup in Vienna that was sounding astonishing with Perlisten in-walls. But then again, not really as elaborate as in wall/in ceiling and in floor custom sub setup with Revel towers in bed channels in the Middle East that was custom EQ's with Storm Audio.

I am really looking forward to hearing the setup that one of my friends is doing - Kii Three BTX x 11 with undisclosed amount and quality of subs (but likely in double digits) as the project has just been kicked off and acoustic evaluation will come after the theatre structure is built.

 

[EJ3]

No pun intended but that is a bit surprising with all the stories about the US man-caves and the goodies in there.

I split my time between mid Europe and Middle East and over years I have heard systems that have so many towers and subs of different kinds that makes you wonder where the limits are. Recently I heard a Trinnov wave-forming setup in Vienna that was sounding astonishing with Perlisten in-walls. But then again, not really as elaborate as in wall/in ceiling and in floor custom sub setup with Revel towers in bed channels in the Middle East that was custom EQ's with Storm Audio.

I am really looking forward to hearing the setup that one of my friends is doing - Kii Three BTX x 11 with undisclosed amount and quality of subs (but likely in double digits) as the project has just been kicked off and acoustic evaluation will come after the theatre structure is built.

There was a lot more folks that had good-great gear in the 1970's-1999 (I left in 2001 to live on Islands in the Indian Ocean & Western Pacific), I came back in 2018 & few people have any gear worth listening to.
I have found one in each of the 3 states around me.

 

[Jaxjax]

Interesting point - but how did that actually get resolved a long time ago?

Couldn't resist...

 

[terryforsythe]

A full-range speaker shouldn’t be a huge ask, like a tower with active bass or a monkey coffin 3 or 4 way with a 15” for the lower register. I feel like this should have been solved a long time ago.

It has been solved.

8381A SAM™ Adaptive Point Source Main Monitor - Genelec.com

Our 8381A empowers engineers and creators to perceive every sonic detail, offering true-to-life sound level and dynamics – with the full flexibility of free-standing monitor placement and advanced room adaption.

www.genelec.com

Wilson Audio | WAMM Master Chronosonic

www.wilsonaudio.com

A700 LE

Buchardt Audio A700 Limited Edition Active Wireless Floor Standing Speakers

buchardtaudio.com

Even my small KEF LS60 speakers are full range. Out of the box they extend down to 26Hz, but they are flat down to 20Hz in my room with the help of CamillaDSP.

LS60 Wireless

It will feel like you’re inside the game, the film, the music. Refining what immersive experience really means, the LS60 Wireless delivers truly realistic, high-fidelity sound for home entertainment. Its slim, plug and play design, packed with KEF’s key technology, offers the whole package: not...

us.kef.com

 

[VMAT4]

Not trying to be argumentative here, but this is a stretch. Plenty of people manage to keep bookshelf speakers on stands without 'disastrous results'.

Mort, You have a pet dog? I'd worry about a chocolate lab knocking over a bookshelf speaker on a stand, if I had a chocolate lab. But, I do have cats. And, I'd worry about a cat jumping onto or off of a bookshelf speaker on a stand, if I had bookshelf speakers on stands. I'm just saying.

 

[EJ3]

Interesting point - but how did that actually get resolved a long time ago?

I put my LARGE Dahlquist M-905 bookshelf speakers on top of my pair of downward firing subs with a 3.5 degree wedge (with a square of sound/vibration deadening material on each side of the wedge between the 2) which put them very close to how the factory Dahlquist stands had them.
That resolved the issue for me.
I expect that others may have done it differently.

 

[izeek]

imo, floorstanders/towers exist for scale of sound. ive been in a decent few rooms with some very good bookshelves and sub(s). sounded really good.

i just didn't get the same visceral feeling i get with, personally, towers and subs. i have a metal song that i absolutely love mwith double kick drums. not the same experience with bookshelves. at all.

room size makes a huge difference. hard to fill large rooms with bookshelves. loud. yes. heft, no.

and some of us are bassheads. i am unabashedly one. it doesn't always need to be loud, just goood.

 

[Oddball]

Couldn't resist...
View attachment 437827

If that was the solution, I would rather stick with the problem .

 

[EJ3]

Couldn't resist...
View attachment 437827

I think that I would need a slightly larger room. In fact, a pair of those wouldn't physically fit in any room in my current house. Their are places that they could have been put in my previous house but not in the same room.
Maybe more money & a better home design...

 

[Oddball]

It has been solved.

8381A SAM™ Adaptive Point Source Main Monitor - Genelec.com

Our 8381A empowers engineers and creators to perceive every sonic detail, offering true-to-life sound level and dynamics – with the full flexibility of free-standing monitor placement and advanced room adaption.

www.genelec.com

Wilson Audio | WAMM Master Chronosonic

www.wilsonaudio.com

A700 LE

Buchardt Audio A700 Limited Edition Active Wireless Floor Standing Speakers

buchardtaudio.com

Even my small KEF LS60 speakers are full range. Out of the box they extend down to 26Hz, but they are flat down to 20Hz in my room with the help of CamillaDSP.

LS60 Wireless

It will feel like you’re inside the game, the film, the music. Refining what immersive experience really means, the LS60 Wireless delivers truly realistic, high-fidelity sound for home entertainment. Its slim, plug and play design, packed with KEF’s key technology, offers the whole package: not...

us.kef.com

These seem like a good solution. Not sure how loud they go as that is the part of the story - full range, but at what volume?

Not heard most of them (Genelec only, which are obviously quite loud), but find these even better. Heard them recently and they are seriously tempting me to forget sanity and budgets.

Kii THREE BXT Lifestyle & Listening - Kii Audio

Experience unparalleled audio in any room with the Kii THREE BXT system. Designed for the ultimate music lover, this upgrade offers crystal-clear sound and a room-friendly design, ensuring your music is pure and immersive without dominating your space. With 7,000 watts of power and advanced...

www.kiiaudio.com

 

[terryforsythe]

Not sure how loud they go as that is the part of the story - full range, but at what volume?

At what SPL and distance do you listen?