Bass in LFE vs Individual Channels

[Oddball]

One has options to control most of those variables.


The DL-ART that I use is still in beta.

I guess they are closing the beta now as D&M is going in to implement it? The beta sticker was a reason why D&M would not go all in. I would say that what you have now is what it will be. For better or worse. Any more specific comments would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I guess they are closing the beta now as D&M is going in to implement it?

Not directly relevant to me as I am using the Windows-based one on my PCserver. AFAIK, that's still beta.

Any more specific comments would be greatly appreciated.

I wrote about a much earlier beta and about using it in a Storm Audio HT processor but no measurements/tests. If you have any specific questions about fundamental issues, I'd try to answer.

 

[Oddball]

I think you were tagged in the other posts dealing with the same topic.

 

[Chrispy]

Not the point of the discussion but here are my settings for my 5.1:

L+R : Full Range (towers 38hz min)
Center 60hz (small center inside a BDI cabinet)
Surrounds : 80hz (bookshelves)

Audyssey always recommends all speakers to Full Range for past 20 years with 6 AVRs (Audyssey MultEq and XT32) but I reduce it manually for dialogue clarity on the center and to give more power to the mains.

LFE: LFE+Mains I might have set that manually - maybe I should check it off.

I have a different set up for 2 channel playback: 40hz and LFE+Mains

FWIW it isn't Audyssey that is recommending the large setting, that's the avr manufacturer's choice. Audyssey has long said to set speakers to small when using a sub.

 

[techsamurai]

FWIW it isn't Audyssey that is recommending the large setting, that's the avr manufacturer's choice. Audyssey has long said to set speakers to small when using a sub.

Why are they not on the same page? That's Marantz and Denon which are the only avr manufacturers using Audyssey right now since Onkyo switched to Dirac.

 

[Chrispy]

Why are they not on the same page? That's Marantz and Denon which are the only avr manufacturers using Audyssey right now since Onkyo switched to Dirac.

Been that way for a long time. I suppose an avr manufacturer doesn't want to tell you your speakers are "small". The setting for L/R Bypass is also from the avr manufacturer rather than Audyssey themselves. Chris Kyriakakis, chief Audyssey guy, has mentioned as such over time in the Ask Audyssey Q&A pages.

Audyssey has also long had the ability to handle multiple subs, but doesn't mean an avr manufacturer has invested in the processing to provide such....the latest Denon/Marantz units with 4 sub capability have finally done that, tho.

 

[Chrispy]

In any case, simply following the avr's recommendation for full range vs using a crossover isn't necessarily important.

 

[Andysu]

seems that LFE.1 signal can trickle up above 120Hz , i monitored , region 2 dvd , revenge of the sith , some of the lightsaber/force effects and saw it nearing 150Hz but the signal appeared weaker level bit i really not that bothered ,
stormaudio isp32 mk3 subwoofer output was set highest level 200Hz L-R-12dB
the Dolby CP500 i think subwooefer can be set at 250Hz
i think the denon avr 8500h subwoofer can also be set at 250Hz ? thou its not in use as processor anymore only serves for laserdisc video and Dolby Stereo zone output to the Dolby CP200 and CP750

most here and most don't have a five screen speakers L Lc C Rc R set-up that can use the Lc Rc for subwoofer or duplicating star wars 1977

what occurred to me the other night , i can add the LFE.1 to L R and use my back-up five screen matrix and it would divert the LFE.1 mono sub to Lc Rc , just a theory for now as i not actually tested to see also what the cross-talk would be like , it would also normally carry any half panned sounds that are usually between L-C and C-R , otherwise i usually do it another way

 

[bigjohns97]

I have always messed around with setting my fronts to full and then choose LFE+Main as a way to get fuller sound from my Klipsch RF-8k-ii L/R and have found that even when matching the crossover comparison with the standard LFE / 80hz crossover using 2-channel music I still get more bass with just the LFE setting than the LFE+Main.

I am guessing this is some sort of a phase mis-match between the Klipsch and the SVS subs but have no way to verify this.

 

[10PSPMemSticksForMiku2007]

Within the digital file LFE is just another channel and like the other channels it could contain anything. It's ultimately up to the author. How this channel is used is up to your equipment and DSP. It's entirely possible you have each channel mapped to a single speaker with no bass management. This is what you get if you play movies on Windows with simple analog or PCM output and no DSP. In the typical case with an AVR the bass below the crossover frequency you select can be redirected into the subwoofer output. But really there's no limit to what kind of DSP you want to do. In my setup I have my main speakers playing LFE information above 50hz, and the subwoofers play LFE + content from all main speakers below 50hz. This results in better localization and bass quality for me at the expense of being harder on the mains.

Not true. Sometimes LFE can be sent to mains, particularly with a few new avrs/pre-pros from what I've seen. Can even be adjusted as to how much. Not something I'd particularly look for as important otoh.

I have a Yamaha AVR from 2009 that can optionally send LFE to sub only, mains+sub or main only. At least on some brands this has been common a long time.

 

[Andysu]

lfe.1 doesn't earthquake , sensurrounnd sound the same when i , something else missing with it and i have tried a few trail and error ideas

 

[Laika2]

So how does the editor decide how to put the bass in an explosion, say on the right channel?

Obviously, they will need to put bass in the Right channel. Do they put the put the full range of the explosion on the right channel and then add a certain range to the LFE. e.g 20-40hz?

Explosions cover a wide frequency range, if your sub is set at 80 which I is non directional the mains run above 80 and contain the part of the explosion that is direction. It's the combination of the two.
You can spot this with far off but prominent thunder in a movie or outside, that's normally really low and non directional close your eyes and you can't point at the source (unless it has content above 80)

 

[Andysu]

Dolby cat 160 obe , baby boom , in the Dolby Stereo CP200 laserdisc theatrical mix , explosions raiders of the lost ark ( letterbox ) Dolby Stereo feels like an air buster with JBL , lucasfilm ltd THX sound system

 

[Adis]

seems that LFE.1 signal can trickle up above 120Hz , i monitored , region 2 dvd , revenge of the sith , some of the lightsaber/force effects and saw it nearing 150Hz but the signal appeared weaker level bit i really not that bothered ,
stormaudio isp32 mk3 subwoofer output was set highest level 200Hz L-R-12dB
the Dolby CP500 i think subwooefer can be set at 250Hz
i think the denon avr 8500h subwoofer can also be set at 250Hz ? thou its not in use as processor anymore only serves for laserdisc video and Dolby Stereo zone output to the Dolby CP200 and CP750

most here and most don't have a five screen speakers L Lc C Rc R set-up that can use the Lc Rc for subwoofer or duplicating star wars 1977

what occurred to me the other night , i can add the LFE.1 to L R and use my back-up five screen matrix and it would divert the LFE.1 mono sub to Lc Rc , just a theory for now as i not actually tested to see also what the cross-talk would be like , it would also normally carry any half panned sounds that are usually between L-C and C-R , otherwise i usually do it another way

IIRC, War of he worlds (2005) Blu-Ray (not 4K UHD) has LFE channel without any filtering - on some scenes.

 

[Chrispy]

I have a Yamaha AVR from 2009 that can optionally send LFE to sub only, mains+sub or main only. At least on some brands this has been common a long time.

You sure it sends LFE to mains? What model?

 

[10PSPMemSticksForMiku2007]

You sure it sends LFE to mains? What model?

RX-V565. Here's the manual. Check page 39-40. It seems I misremembered how it works, and it only outputs LFE to left+right if you do not use a subwoofer.