solderdude
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measured on 2 different industry standard fixtures by OLLO
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Cheers, I had a flick through that when you posted before, but I think that's not the same rig as Amir's / Oratory / Crinacle? I got the impression it wasn't comparable?measured on 2 different industry standard fixtures by OLLO
Nice review, convinced me to order a pair. Seems like a good product from good guys.Just added the new OLLO S5X open headphone and posted my review.
Excellent sound quality and plugging this one because I really think this is also interesting outside of the studio.
Yeah, cool, which is why it would be good if Amir measures it on his GRAS, as that is the one that is Harman - the one that we know best here (and has the research backing the Target Curve).Indeed not the same fixtures, and on top of that they also have their own target (so not Harman or DF) for the compensated plots.
It seems like quite a lot of time & effort to put into what is likely a poor product and praps a likely poor outcome, but if you view it as a "hobby adventure" then why not. I'm not sure that you can rely on your measurements in terms of creating a target curve and comparing different headphones to it. Did you say it's a flat plate? If the acoustic impedance is different from a human ear (which it will be if it's a flat plate or indeed something like the miniDSP EARS even), then different headphone models will react differently on there so it would be impossible to have one target curve that is applicable to all headphones, as the different headphone models won't sound the same when EQ'd to the same curve using that rig. How did you arrive at the Toole Target, how did you create that? From a sound quality perspective you'd probably be better off buying a half decent headphone that has been measured by Oratory & then use his EQ's as a starting point (or indeed an end point if they sound good).
I won an eBay auction for these at 25 GBP: the Sony MDR-MA300. All Sony open-back models seem to be rarely seen in the UK for some reason, so although these are the low end model from that line (I have a permanent search for 'MDR-MA' set up in the hope of finding an MA900), I thought I'd give them a shot.
The design looks normal from the outside but is the strangest I've come across in a headphone once you look inside. The driver is held in place only by a flexible rubber bowl, and there is some plastic assemblage behind it to limit the movement a little from being entirely free-floating, to hinging in one direction. It is impossible to describe in words only, so here are some pictures:
View attachment 262221View attachment 262222View attachment 262223View attachment 262224
Besides the plastic headband, which requires padding, the headphones are supremely comfortable. It's kind of like having a supra-aural headphone with very low clamping force resting on your ear, with very soft velour padding all around the outside.
Unfortunately they do not sound great. I listened before measuring, and the bass is the first thing I noticed: it's definitely too elevated. The peak around 5kHz I didn't notice until measuring, largely because it is narrow (and I am sure exacerbated by my fpc, and not as bad on the head) so doesn't cause painful sibilance so much as a constant hissing coloration which simply sounds 'lo-fi'. EQ did wonders and simply bringing down that bass hump, then those peaks in the midrange and treble, improved it substantially.
View attachment 262219
I would really like to explore some acoustic means of sorting out that treble. I tried removing the plastic from behind the driver, stuffing the housing with foam, but from measuring the driver on its own it seems the 5khz peak is a property of the driver itself. I found no way to eliminate it. Therefore I am thinking of replacing the drivers with some Peerless by Tymphany drivers: either the HPD-40N16PET00-32-ND, which is the same 40mm size, or the HPD-50N25PR00-32-ND which is what the Aurorus Borealis uses. The latter is 50mm, bigger than the original, so would require some ingenuity to find a solution to installing them.
Any thoughts?
I would really like to explore some acoustic means of sorting out that treble. I tried removing the plastic from behind the driver, stuffing the housing with foam, but from measuring the driver on its own it seems the 5khz peak is a property of the driver itself. I found no way to eliminate it. Therefore I am thinking of replacing the drivers with some Peerless by Tymphany drivers: either the HPD-40N16PET00-32-ND, which is the same 40mm size, or the HPD-50N25PR00-32-ND which is what the Aurorus Borealis uses. The latter is 50mm, bigger than the original, so would require some ingenuity to find a solution to installing them.
Any thoughts?
For sure, I've already got a pair of HD6XX which are my main headphones (sorry the line is in grey so not very visible in my graph above). The Toole target is just useful to use the auto eq function in rew, for example to test a crude change like "how does the MDR-MA300 sound with the 5kHz peak EQed out". I understand it can't be used a target for flat plate headphone measurements.It seems like quite a lot of time & effort to put into what is likely a poor product and praps a likely poor outcome, but if you view it as a "hobby adventure" then why not. I'm not sure that you can rely on your measurements in terms of creating a target curve and comparing different headphones to it. Did you say it's a flat plate? If the acoustic impedance is different from a human ear (which it will be if it's a flat plate or indeed something like the miniDSP EARS even), then different headphone models will react differently on there so it would be impossible to have one target curve that is applicable to all headphones, as the different headphone models won't sound the same when EQ'd to the same curve using that rig. How did you arrive at the Toole Target, how did you create that? From a sound quality perspective you'd probably be better off buying a half decent headphone that has been measured by Oratory & then use his EQ's as a starting point (or indeed an end point if they sound good).
Thanks for the advice, I suspected this might be the case. It's unfortunate, looking through your measurements on diyaudioheaven, many headphones otherwise tuned ok seem to have problems in this region 5-8kHz which can't be easily dampened.Everything below 1kHz can often be changed with changing things behind the driver.
Above a few kHz only pads and materials in front of the driver help. The problem here is that it is in not simple to remove peaks this way as one almost always also changes parts of the response one does not want to change.
Above 8kHz toilet paper, or felt can be helpful. For anything below that these materials don't do much and only change the treble.
You can play around with the Peerless drivers but for these too... the housing, porting and above all pads are of great influence.
It is always a combination of driver/porting/housing and pads that determines the final result.
Ah, ok, so I think I understand why you put the Toole Target in. So it's not in any way shape or form used to EQ the whole headphone and is in itself totally invalid as a Target Curve for your measurement rig, but you use it simply as a "straight line" to EQ out just that one offending peak - because REW needs somekind of a target in order to use it's AutoEQ function. Have I got that right, in terms of what you meant?For sure, I've already got a pair of HD6XX which are my main headphones (sorry the line is in grey so not very visible in my graph above). The Toole target is just useful to use the auto eq function in rew, for example to test a crude change like "how does the MDR-MA300 sound with the 5kHz peak EQed out". I understand it can't be used a target for flat plate headphone measurements.
Exactly as you put it you can also set within how many dB you want rew to try to match, and within what certain frequency range, to avoid applying loads of narrow band peaking filters in an attempt to match perfectly to the target.Ah, ok, so I think I understand why you put the Toole Target in. So it's not in any way shape or form used to EQ the whole headphone and is in itself totally invalid as a Target Curve for your measurement rig, but you use it simply as a "straight line" to EQ out just that one offending peak - because REW needs somekind of a target in order to use it's AutoEQ function. Have I got that right, in terms of what you meant?
Great! Read the review. Seems to work for HiFi too. I suspected that it might be a distinct tool for mixing etc., but not so very suitable for those who just want to listen to music. But according to your measurements and your listening impression, it seems to work for listening to music as well.Just added the new OLLO S5X open headphone and posted my review.
Excellent sound quality and plugging this one because I really think this is also interesting outside of the studio.
As I understood your review, the 5X is a better headphone for HiFi than the previous two models. And maybe with a little damping of the higher frequencies. At least if you don't prefer the noticeably warmer tone of the S4XYes, it is a studio tool.
But this one is also quite enjoyable for hifi. Good tonality, comfort (clamping force quite high though) and hifi. Those that use nearfield monitors and prefer that sound should like this one, perhaps with a slight reduction of the treble even more.
The filter looks to need few components, will go fast and be easy to put together. I am very tempted to get a pair of these headphones.The closed S4R (1.1 and 1.2) is a bit 'bass light' but very well extended. The S4X (1.2 and 1.3) is a bit too 'warm'. The S5X is nicely inbetween.
Harman afficionado's may want to EQ it a bit. To me Harman is 1-2dB too 'much' in the bass.
Verify this.Wrong forum. Unverifiable headphones 'impressions' belong here: https://www.head-fi.org/
LOLHe's just pissed I'm listening to the best headphones made by humanity on a Folkvangr.
I have been using LCD-X, LCD2 Closed and Sennheiser HD650, but I have been thinking about something different to compliment what I have. Any recommendations for something different? I was thinking maybe Argon T60?